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It seems like the USA could settle that problem naturally without that much effort, but maybe there needs to be more intervention from different people to channel the ideological divide in the USA in a much more balanced, positive, and peaceful way.
This is quite difficult if both sides believe their ideology is the "right way" and want the entire country to live under those policies.
It would be much easier if we all agreed to a "cease-fire" and choose our own ideological destinies at the state level, but unfortunately some will never agree, due to the argument that states' rights brought us slavery and segregation.
Last edited by Freedom123; 01-26-2012 at 09:01 AM..
Is it just me, or is does this country seem very, very divided to you guys/gals?
I am getting the strong impression that the future is very bleak for this once great country, ideology has basically stopped the USA from moving forward as a country.
In day to day living you do not notice it too much, but in print, on TV, on the radio and in all political circles......wow, the hatred between the right and left is palpable.
I lurk at both right and left wing sites.....man, the vile thrown at people like Palin and Obama.....well, it is beyond nasty.
In my opinion many of the massive problems of this country are pretty clear (say visa entry/exit reform, over 40% of the illegals in this country come here legally). It is pretty obvious that a problem like this should be taken care of.......but mainly due to ideology and bad blood between the two parties it won't.......pretty sad.....and this is just one example out of thousands.
I just see this country falling further and further in many aspects, living standards, safety, hatred among the races, education........really do not see any way to change the decline of this once great country.
When it comes to the economy, even among experts there are many grey areas.
When it comes to morals, it is black and white.
Our country most have high moral standards and ensure that businesses and the government have rules to establish this.
As far as the economy goes, like I said even among experts there are grey areas.
A moral problem caused the real estate market problem.
A moral problem is the reason behind such wealth differences.
A moral corrupt person lets thousands starve, when their billion dollar home could of fed thousands and educated thousands.
A morally corrupt person is also someone who doesn't work when they are able and then complains that the rich control everything.
This is quite difficult if both sides believe their ideology is the "right way" and want the entire country to live under those policies.
That's correct. Diversity of opinion is good, natural and healthy.
The problem arises when one cannot obtain a consensus, and that generally happens when a population becomes too diverse.
Look at federal minimum wage for example. It is wrong. It should be eliminated. Why? Because the US is a country, and not a nation. The cost-of-living varies dramatically from State-to-State and often from city-to-city within a State. In some areas of the country, someone earning the federal minimum wage has a Middle Class life-style, while in other areas of the country, a month's worth of minimum wage earnings wouldn't even pay for an 8' x 10' room in a boarding house.
The correct solution is to end federal minimum wage and allow each to assess whether or not a minimum wage is needed, and if so, at what rate and to whom it should be applied.
For the same reason that the federal minimum wage is a total failure, Medicare is a total failure.
Is the cost of an office visit the same in every single city in the US? No, it is not. The cost varies from as low as $15 to as high as $85. Why does the cost vary so much? Cost-of-living. The rental price per square foot might be $6/sq ft in one city, $10/sq ft (like in Cincinnasti), or $19/sq ft like in Chicago and larger cities. Wages might be higher or lower for nurses, clerks and staff. Taxes and tax rates vary. One State might charge a tax for disposing of bio-hazard waste, while other States might not. So the cost to do business varies greatly, and that determines the true cost of an office visit.
Medicare says it will pay $35 per visit. So what happens? The doctors that would normally charge $15 to $30 for an office visit raise their rates to $35, because that's what they government pays. That is wasteful. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those doctors who have no choice but to charge $45 or higher because of the cost-of-living and other factors have to turn patients away. And if they don't turn patients away, then they raise the raise of other services to match what Medicare pays to make up for the loss. The whole system is wasteful and efficient.
Allowing the States to administer the program would be much more effective.
And then you have other issues like Social Security. How can you solve a problem, if you cannot even reach a consensus that a problem exists?
You can't do it. And assuming you could reach a consensus that there is a problem, you cannot reach a consensus on what ought to be done to solve the problem.
Too much diversity of opinion effectively is the same as too many chefs spoil the broth.
If you abandon nationalism and return to the principles of federalism, you'd have a much better chance. An individual State is more like a nation, than the US ever could be, because a State has a more homogenous population, not too mention a small population. 23 Million people isn't the same as 308 Million. There is still a great deal of diversity of opinion, but to the extent that you cannot obtain an consensus and progressively move forward on important issues.
Federally...
When it comes to the economy, even among experts there are many grey areas.
When it comes to morals, it is black and white.
Our country most have high moral standards and ensure that businesses and the government have rules to establish this.
As far as the economy goes, like I said even among experts there are grey areas.
A moral problem caused the real estate market problem.
A moral problem is the reason behind such wealth differences.
A moral corrupt person lets thousands starve, when their billion dollar home could of fed thousands and educated thousands.
A morally corrupt person is also someone who doesn't work when they are able and then complains that the rich control everything.
Well, you are being kinda abstract.....but I get your drift.
You think that having stuff....well, a lot of stuff..... while others have very little to nothing is the worst thing. So, the solution is what???? Oh, I know.......take most of the stuff from the evil rich and dole it out via programs to the poor.....that does not work......just makes the poor more and more dependent on Big Brother........Oh yeah, I forgot....that is what BB wants.....more and more power.
That's correct. Diversity of opinion is good, natural and healthy.
The problem arises when one cannot obtain a consensus, and that generally happens when a population becomes too diverse.
Look at federal minimum wage for example. It is wrong. It should be eliminated. Why? Because the US is a country, and not a nation. The cost-of-living varies dramatically from State-to-State and often from city-to-city within a State. In some areas of the country, someone earning the federal minimum wage has a Middle Class life-style, while in other areas of the country, a month's worth of minimum wage earnings wouldn't even pay for an 8' x 10' room in a boarding house.
The correct solution is to end federal minimum wage and allow each to assess whether or not a minimum wage is needed, and if so, at what rate and to whom it should be applied.
For the same reason that the federal minimum wage is a total failure, Medicare is a total failure.
Is the cost of an office visit the same in every single city in the US? No, it is not. The cost varies from as low as $15 to as high as $85. Why does the cost vary so much? Cost-of-living. The rental price per square foot might be $6/sq ft in one city, $10/sq ft (like in Cincinnasti), or $19/sq ft like in Chicago and larger cities. Wages might be higher or lower for nurses, clerks and staff. Taxes and tax rates vary. One State might charge a tax for disposing of bio-hazard waste, while other States might not. So the cost to do business varies greatly, and that determines the true cost of an office visit.
Medicare says it will pay $35 per visit. So what happens? The doctors that would normally charge $15 to $30 for an office visit raise their rates to $35, because that's what they government pays. That is wasteful. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those doctors who have no choice but to charge $45 or higher because of the cost-of-living and other factors have to turn patients away. And if they don't turn patients away, then they raise the raise of other services to match what Medicare pays to make up for the loss. The whole system is wasteful and efficient.
Allowing the States to administer the program would be much more effective.
And then you have other issues like Social Security. How can you solve a problem, if you cannot even reach a consensus that a problem exists?
You can't do it. And assuming you could reach a consensus that there is a problem, you cannot reach a consensus on what ought to be done to solve the problem.
Too much diversity of opinion effectively is the same as too many chefs spoil the broth.
If you abandon nationalism and return to the principles of federalism, you'd have a much better chance. An individual State is more like a nation, than the US ever could be, because a State has a more homogenous population, not too mention a small population. 23 Million people isn't the same as 308 Million. There is still a great deal of diversity of opinion, but to the extent that you cannot obtain an consensus and progressively move forward on important issues.
Federally...
Mircea
I agree with you on the federal minimum wage. There is no reason for this to be mandated by the federal government. What I like about state regulation, where it makes sense, is it makes each state its own experiment. We can compare the success and failure of decisions that each state makes based on comparing the outcomes. With a federal law, we no longer have the means of comparison and we are forced to analyze based on theory and no real evidence.
Medicare is not a similar situation to the federal minimum wage law. Medicare uses the hospital wage index to adjust inpatient prospective payments to hospitals and the geographic practice cost index under the physician fee schedule. Each hospital’s wage index value determines whether their payments will be adjusted upwards or downwards depending on the cost of labor in their area. The cost of labor is currently defined as the average hospital worker wage (adjusted for occupation) in a given metropolitan statistical area (MSA). It is not a perfect system and there are many exceptions but it is at least an attempt to adjust payments based on local cost of living differences.
Divisiveness, short-sightedness, and personal attacks have been a part of politics since well before my Dad allowed me to stay up and watch a bit of the election returns ..... at the age of 7, in 1956.
Since that time, we've gone through 13 Presedential elections, 11 Presidents, one impeachment, one resignation, and one assasination. Yet the process remains the same, the Constitution has added but five minor amendments. We have seen the last of the great totalitarian butcher-states of the early Twentieth Century collapse under the weight of its own chains, and those of us who lived through it know that the biggest single issue that threatened us ... the question of race ... has been largely tamed. The number of tested (100 years of uninterrupted peaceful transfer of power between organized parties) democrcieso this planet remains small -- about 15 -- but it should grow substantially over the next 50 years or so.
With that record in place, the petty squabbles between the ideologically-driven, as opposed to the practicioners of realpolitik, is a tacky sideshow. Unless we are foolish enough to allow too much power to be concentrated, the follies of both the Right's push for legislated morality and the Left's Utopian dreams of legislated equaily of result, rather than equality of opportunity, will both eventually run up against the rule of reason, as embodied in both the free exchange of ecoonomic benefits and the free exchange of human opinion.
There are a lot of us out here who know a real threat when we see it, and we'll be ready; until that time, the show will go on.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-13-2012 at 05:27 PM..
This is quite difficult if both sides believe their ideology is the "right way" and want the entire country to live under those policies.
It would be much easier if we all agreed to a "cease-fire" and choose our own ideological destinies at the state level, but unfortunately some will never agree, due to the argument that states' rights brought us slavery and segregation.
This is what I have been thinking for quite a while.
The idea of a "United States" might sound good. But as thinking people can easily see, the USA has become a huge, dysfunctional, pathetic, corrupt mess.
My dream is to see the Federal Government dissolve and each state be able to clearly decide their own destiny.
Bascially you want more states rights in returning to what it was like for decades.I thnik perhaps the founders knew when say that evry thign not spefic to ederal as layed out in the consiton is state controleld knew that in such a large nation indivdual areas woud actaully need different laws to conform more to local culture and belief.We see even today that western europe can not actaully form a common union there are such differences.
Is it just me, or is does this country seem very, very divided to you guys/gals?
I am getting the strong impression that the future is very bleak for this once great country, ideology has basically stopped the USA from moving forward as a country.
In day to day living you do not notice it too much, but in print, on TV, on the radio and in all political circles......wow, the hatred between the right and left is palpable.
I lurk at both right and left wing sites.....man, the vile thrown at people like Palin and Obama.....well, it is beyond nasty.
In my opinion many of the massive problems of this country are pretty clear (say visa entry/exit reform, over 40% of the illegals in this country come here legally). It is pretty obvious that a problem like this should be taken care of.......but mainly due to ideology and bad blood between the two parties it won't.......pretty sad.....and this is just one example out of thousands.
I just see this country falling further and further in many aspects, living standards, safety, hatred among the races, education........really do not see any way to change the decline of this once great country.
I agree but we have to look into it based on the obvious. Currently Obama is our president. He has put forth some ideas that are good and some not so good but almost every time the GOP has shot down his ideas with no chance to compromise. To me, that means that they are so determined to win the seat that they will vote down ANYTHING he tries to pass. This means that they would rather have their party holding the presidency, then see the country thrive under a Democrat. When he wins again, will they finally try to help him improve this once great nation or will it be the same? As far as Palin goes, she is an ignorant individual that has no place in politics. Shouldn't our leaders be intelligent? She definitely is not. Our biggest problems right now are the economy, gas/fuel, and the worlds perception of the U.S. We need a good handshaker that can improve our perception in the world and open it up for our exports. The other major issue is marijuana (don't laugh). No one wants to talk about it but make it legal already and create our biggest export ever which would also lessen the demand for it to be smuggled into this country illegally. We need to wake up to the obvious. Come on GOP! Country first, not party first!!!
[quote=2nd trick op;22969446]Divisiveness, short-sightedness, and personal attacks have been a part of politics since well before my Dad allowed me to stay up and watch a bit of the election returns ..... at the age of 7, in 1956.
Since that time, we've gone through 13 Presedential elections, 11 Presidents, one impeachment, one resignation, and one assasination. Yet the process remains the same, the Constitution has added but five minor amendments. We have seen the last of the great totalitarian butcher-states of the early Twentieth Century collapse under the weight of its own chains, and those of us who lived through it know that the biggest single issue that threatened us ... the question of race ... has been largely tamed. The number of tested (100 years of uninterrupted peaceful transfer of power between organized parties) democrcieso this planet remains small -- about 15 -- but it should grow substantially over the next 50 years or so.
With that record in place, the petty squabbles between the ideologically-driven, as opposed to the practicioners of realpolitik, is a tacky sideshow. Unless we are foolish enough to allow too much power to be concentrated, the follies of both the Right's push for legislated morality and the Left's Utopian dreams of legislated equaily of result, rather than equality of opportunity, will both eventually run up against the rule of reason, as embodied in both the free exchange of ecoonomic benefits and the free exchange of human opinion.
There are a lot of us out here who know a real threat when we see it, and we'll be ready; until that time, the show will go on.[/quote]
There are a LOT of "real" threats right now, we should be working on them before it is too late. We could wait and wait.....let the problems grow and fester.........oh yeah, that is what we have been doing for the last 50-60 years.
The national debt will be 20-22 Trillion by the end of 2016 and interst rates will most likely be quite a bit higher. That means more and more of the budget will be wasted on debt maintainence. And yeah, Social Security will be really suckin wind, regularly taking in less than it pays out...........but hey, we have a worthless TRUST FUND that some insane people believe in.
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