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Unread 06-04-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 760,087 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
The conflict never really ends, does it? World War I was supposed to be the war to end all wars, but it proved to be anything but.
Conflict itself never ends.

Specific conflicts can and do end, but they only end with either a mutual, openly agreed upon peace or with the destruction of one of the combatants (which was generally more common. My point was that we don't ever reach that stage anymore).
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Unread 06-07-2011, 06:41 AM
 
Location: J-ville, FL
211 posts, read 180,183 times
Reputation: 302
"The only winner of a war is the grim reaper"
"I imagine God grows weary of being called down on both sides of an argument."
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Unread 06-07-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 1,081,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubblejumper View Post
Conflict itself never ends.

Specific conflicts can and do end, but they only end with either a mutual, openly agreed upon peace or with the destruction of one of the combatants (which was generally more common. My point was that we don't ever reach that stage anymore).
Somehow, the War Machine always finds fresh meat for the meat grinder and that is how war continues. Only because young people find appealing the idea of going off to die in a foreign land so that the rich get richer ... that is the long and the short of it.
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Unread 06-07-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Belgium
1,172 posts, read 712,534 times
Reputation: 1362
These days, it's all about special forces and secret operations taking out terrorists, preferably supported by hightech weaponry.

Unless China and the US are going to lock horns in the near future, I don't see any Grand War coming soon.
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Unread 06-07-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
9,152 posts, read 5,861,151 times
Reputation: 7294
One of the most important legacys of WW2 was the OSS. One of the things taught locals was how to fight a guerilla war. There had been wars fought with this method, but the refined tactics were taught to be used as resistance to those occupying them, in this case the axis powers.

But once taught, lessons don't get forgotten. It is no accident that the foreign empires of those who won fell apart soon after the war. If you look at the wars since ww2, most have been fought with guerilla tactics. Vietnam and our courrent wars certainly qualify. It's one thing to push and "finish' a war fought between standing armies who fight the same war, but if one side just attacks and fades away until the next time, it gets very complicated. War as was fought in Europe is (with a horrendous cost) 'winnable', but in jungles and open ground with an enemy you can't find after the battle the wars are going to seem to string out forever without result.

It's interesting that in our own revolution, this played a part. The northern half of the war was fought in regular army style, with plently of more presonal damage civilian to civilan which the history books don't menton. The south was largely militias who fought it as we fight wars today. Even when it looked like the clock was about to stop for the northern revolutionaries, the British were chasing the southern militias across country and bogging down. The British public wanted it over. It was not the will of the army but the will of the Parliment that it should be. If it had been fought strictly in Europrean style, as the Brits had a much better army, it would have been over much sooner. But the elements who fought "Indian style" in the countryside helped counter that and were highly successful and the public and Parliment said stop.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 04:36 PM
 
Location: NJ
6,429 posts, read 3,310,563 times
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Wars have been historically effective.

War is almost impossible to conduct these days because the media acts as a spy for the 'enemy' and reveals troop movements, timeframes, strength and operational details.

Enemies now disguise themselves as non-combatants and use innocent people as shields. The media then reports colateral damage in support of the 'enemy's' strategy.

World society views wars with the perspective of reviewing a police incident in a friendly neighborhood replete with legal consequences.

Success or failure of a 'war' depends on media coverage.

Weapons were designed to fight massed uniformed enemies.

Eurodisney sits back and gums the inflamed areas of conflict occurring in the global community to death with mindless talk. They have neither the ability to conduct war or a sense of responsibility to the global community. the problem is someone has to save their bacon and guess who has to now deal with a festering wound caused by conscious neglect, read as failed 'diplomacy'.

The answer to the question has to consider few specific countries as the others stand aside as impotent and critical knowing who will protect them.

While other countries are apparently savages who know no better and conduct war with the nonshalance of eating a meal.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 760,087 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Somehow, the War Machine always finds fresh meat for the meat grinder and that is how war continues. Only because young people find appealing the idea of going off to die in a foreign land so that the rich get richer ... that is the long and the short of it.
There are as many reasons for war as there are for people getting into personal arguments - it's just the same thing on a grander scale.

However, there are quite a few examples where two groups go to war, then live peacefully for generations afterward. War, as an entity continues, but that particular conflict has been settled definitively.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
Wars have been historically effective.

War is almost impossible to conduct these days because the media acts as a spy for the 'enemy' and reveals troop movements, timeframes, strength and operational details.

Enemies now disguise themselves as non-combatants and use innocent people as shields. The media then reports colateral damage in support of the 'enemy's' strategy.

World society views wars with the perspective of reviewing a police incident in a friendly neighborhood replete with legal consequences.

Success or failure of a 'war' depends on media coverage.

Weapons were designed to fight massed uniformed enemies.
I think you've hit on the same idea as I did. We can no longer prosecute a war to the fullest of our abilities, because we can immediately see and judge the results of doing so.

For example, in the case of enemies dressing as non-combatants: Prior to media coverage, it wouldn't be unheard of for an army to slaughter everybody, just to make sure all disguised combatants were killed. It's a gruesome and ugly solution, but highly effective, nonetheless.
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Unread 06-09-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
3,371 posts, read 3,206,617 times
Reputation: 2236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubblejumper View Post
There are as many reasons for war as there are for people getting into personal arguments - it's just the same thing on a grander scale.

However, there are quite a few examples where two groups go to war, then live peacefully for generations afterward. War, as an entity continues, but that particular conflict has been settled definitively.






I think you've hit on the same idea as I did. We can no longer prosecute a war to the fullest of our abilities, because we can immediately see and judge the results of doing so.

For example, in the case of enemies dressing as non-combatants: Prior to media coverage, it wouldn't be unheard of for an army to slaughter everybody, just to make sure all disguised combatants were killed. It's a gruesome and ugly solution, but highly effective, nonetheless.
I agree with both of you. The biggest reason why wars are no longer as effective is because we are no longer allowed to fight them effectively. Another reason is because they are micromanaged by politicians to keep casualties to a minimum so that they look good to the media during the next election campaign. How can we win if we can barely fight?
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Unread 06-09-2011, 12:32 PM
 
3,278 posts, read 2,819,355 times
Reputation: 1861
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather not go back to the days where scorched Earth was acceptable just to make wars faster and less expensive. The Post-War Geneva conventions as well as globalization have done a lot to make large scale war between major powers obsolete. Basically, if your economy isn't tanked by the immediate consequences, you'll go bankrupt from the cost of rebuilding. It's a huge boon to irregulars against standing armies and rogue regimes against the international community, but that's a small price to pay compared to the one exacted by large scale wars.
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Unread 06-09-2011, 12:53 PM
 
27,830 posts, read 15,577,208 times
Reputation: 13377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Wars are becoming more and more efficient, what with all the clever new ways of killing people. Warmongers get their sexual jollies by thinking up things like white phosphorous and stealth drones and and all kinds of things that go boom. But ultimate, wars are as futile as they always were, in that they do not prove who is right but who is left. Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Bizarre.
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