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I have always heard if that you don't stand for something, you will fall for everything. To me, this means you need to have a loyalty to SOMETHING that does not change or is VERY difficult to change. Not being loyal to a country, state or something would be like playing baseball without homeplate or having a car without a steering wheel.
Charles Sands
37129
I think it takes a long time and a lot of living to feel centered in yourself - to not require outside forces to tell you who you are. Some people never reach that point. I believe that a person can be grounded in themselves. They can have character and values that the live by and have determined for themselves that they are best regardless of what those around them believe. If you have developed your own roots, then you have a foundation from which to build, a compass by which you can judge your direction.
I think most of us allow our surroundings to reflect our conduct and so mirror who/what you are. Eventually you/we can grow to have a strong sense of self without this.
To my mind the divorce rate is so high because a lot of people don't wait for this point in their life before marrying. They don't even know who they are yet. But then many would never marry.
Any country can operate like a dysfunctional family...What happens in a dysfunctional family? Family members are suppose to pretend that the family is perfect at all times...Kids who dare to speak out and reveal family secrets and problems are demonized...I've seen this same kind of stuff go on in our country at times...It's not always easy to speak out and question anything in-depth...We're suppose to claim that we are the best country on earth at all times and minimize the extent of our problems...I grew up in a dysfunctional family so I recognize all the signs and taboos and censorship etc.
Grew up in one too, and I see the signs here in the US. I believe in certain values and when my country and the administration adheres to high moral values, values that are inclusive of all American's, and when my country cares for the poor - or at least makes an attempt to do so, I am proud of them.
When we are war mongers, trample on the rights of others, favor tax cuts for the wealthy and large corporations - not so much.
But evrryone has a gripe . The only time I can think of is when you are called to serve. Then its against the law not to answer. Now few of that type volunteeer anyway really.
I think there is a tremendous difference between blind patriotism and simply being happy living where one lives. I've served in the military, not out of a feeling of patriotic duty but to advance my own career, and I've also traveled extensively throughout the world. Americans, especially abroad, have this weird sort of jangoism that seems childish and stupid.
Many times I've been around Americans in other countries, they walk around thinking they should be respected simply because they're Americans. There is a haughty arrogance with a prevalence of "I should be respected because I'm American and we are the best nation in the world," rather than their actions speaking for why they should be respected.
I'll be honest... I've lived in several places abroad that I liked more than the U.S. Japan, for one, is probably my favorite place in this world and, if my personal situation were a little different, I'd gladly pack up and move there and never look back.
But, to say something like that in the U.S. comes across to people as something like blasphemy. "How dare you say you would live somewhere else than the U.S.!?" It's usually the people who've never left the U.S. that respond in such a vehement manner. Yet, when in the countries I've most enjoyed, I don't come across this nationalistic fervor of the host country. I don't come across people who are clearly idiotic in their fever for their country. And, I don't mind criticizing the U.S. for a number of different foreign and domestic policies.
Does that make me un-patriotic? No. But, you're not going to see me waving a flag around like it's this infallible object incapable of error or mistakes. To do such a thing is only to advertise yourself as a religious zealot assisted by the isolationism of this country. I do enjoy living in the U.S. I do enjoy certain freedoms that other countries don't have. I think that is a definitely a positive thing about this country. But, that doesn't necessarily make us the "greatest country on the planet." We have our faults, we have our idiots, and we certainly have a propensity to make ourselves look foolish - especially abroad.
I don't think I should live in fear for making a comment such as that. I think it's perfectly justifiable. And, in my opinion, societal backlash for such comments can be just as intolerant and totalitarian as any government who wishes to suppress the thoughts and voices of individual citizens.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. My personal experience has been that people who are way over the top in terms of patriotism tend to be small-minded, intolerant, and not particularly intelligent.
Not sure if patriotism is the right word but is there anything wrong with a person who, regardless of country of origin, goes about his/her own life normally but deep down doesn't give a damn about his/her own country?
This person may have good intentions and will work to better mankind but completely rejects the notion of a nation and/or is completely oblivious or indifferent towards nationalism.
I do not see anything wrong with patritism. Patriotism in my opinion is called differently in other similar circumstances. With relatives and friends it may be called loyalty. In a company it may also be called that. Groups or any size tend to expect some type of loyalty. Loyatly is what bonds groups together. Once you go against that group norms, rules, expectations you may not be accepted anymore as part of it.
How different is that as being part of a country? Patriotism is what bonds countries. The question is how far does your loyalty to the country will go? Also, a country does require a certain degree of loyalty that may go as far in support of bad national policies. Do we agree with certain wars, economic decisions, treaties with other countries? Do we have to agree with every decision our country does? No we will not. However, in the overall picture are we happy with our country, our way of life? If so, then I believe patriotism is necessary.
Here is where I see many people being more extreme in individuality. I believe our culture have become more self centered. We are not bonding as a nation as much as past generations used to. To me this is distroying our original focus as Americans. My parents immigrated from Mexico. They decided to make the U.S. their home now. I was born in the U.S. but live part of my childhood in Mexico. Even though I love Mexico and have fond memories and relatives, my loyalty is to the U.S. This is my country and I support my country. If the U.S. soccer team plays Mexico I cheer for the U.S., not Mexico because my ethnic roots come from there. My father made sure we learned English. Immigrant families in the past ensured their children learned English because they realized this was their children's home. I spoke Spanish to my kids so they could not more about their their ethnic roots but not at the expense of making sure they are Americans. Today, may groups are now trying to teach their kids about their countries of origin. Nothing wrong with that but if it is with an attitude of people putting the U.S. in a negative note, I disagree. I do not agree with Mexicans that come to the U.S. and belittling the U.S. They are simply bitting the hand that is feeding them, take care.
a person who, regardless of country of origin, goes about his/her own life normally but deep down doesn't give a damn about his/her own country?
You would if you were being subjugated by a higher power which would control for the most part the daily activities of your life; in other words, if you experienced a very limited state of the "natural rights" you enjoy in many countries today. This whole scenario is based on this hypothetical person lucky enough to be living in a country where they have some freedom.
For example, I would say my own country is somewhere along the middle of this type of spectrum; much freedom has been taken away, but then again, I'm given the impression by people who've traveled over all parts of the world that it is exponentially better than how some other countries have it. Also I would have to add that it is exceptionally patriotic to question your country's government (afterall, I'm not aware of any government now or that ever existed which doesn't seem corrupt on some level).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar
is there anything wrong with a person who, regardless of country of origin, goes about his/her own life normally but deep down doesn't give a damn about his/her own country?
No; it just shows that the person is unappreciative of what they do have (if they have anything in this area).
On a personal note, I was once very much like the person you spoke of who goes about their own life normally but deep down didn't give a damn about my country. This was when I was quite young, up to about twenty, perhaps even twenty-five. When I got interested in history however and learned about my country's history and all that took place to preserve it, I began to have a new appreciation and become more "patriotic". What also promoted this feeling is talking to these people I've met who traveled about and hearing from them what it is like in other places.
I really believe if you live a rather sheltered life and exist only in "your little world", you most likely will care very little about your country. I was once like that, but I'm grateful I took the opportunity to delve outside of my own space and learn about other things besides just what is "now". I believe that what happens when you learn about these things is that you realize that you really cannot take anything you have now for granted. There is no certainty that years down the road the same fixtures that make up the society you live in now will be in place. This at least helped me to appreciate what I have now and make all the best I can of it.
Well, I'm not going to use a lot of "feel good" and fluff talk because I'm about sick to death of it. Wish people would start being real again and stop with the arm chair psychology crap.
Yes, I think there is something wrong with someone who doesn't give a damn about their country.
Since they don't care, they can see or hear something and not report it or make it known that X is going on that could cause harm or death to other people in the country.
If there was ever a war here, or brought here, I don't want that person around. Since they don't give a damn, it wouldn't matter to them if someone turned them in to a spy for a good amount of money. That could potentially get people killed.
People who do not give a damn about the country they live in need to go find some tiny, uninhabited island to live on. Our forefathers went through a lot of b.s. to get us here and I'm disgusted at how many people have thumbed their noses at that.
NO ONE likes war. But remember, "‘God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.'– Daniel Webster”
If you don't give a damn about the country you live in, you are not willing to guard and defend it, leave.
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