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Old 07-10-2011, 08:39 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,430,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
And of course, if we all paid and extra $4237 per year in tax, it would tank our economy.
Using the revenue to pay off debt would put the same $4237 right back into the economy again. It's a wash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
As I mentioned, the biggest part of the problem is exploding medical & Social Security costs.
Half right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
We spend nearly 20% of GDP on health care (about half of which is funded by taxation), yet we're far from the healthiest population. Interestingly, that's one of the things the Greeks seem to do better than us. They live longer than we do but spend a lot less on health care. IMO, I think it's their Mediterranean diet.
Actually, while it's rapidly increasing, only a little over 16% of GDP goes to health care, still by far the highest share of any developed country in the world, yet on measure after measure of health care performance, our system ranks at or near the bottom. This is why passing HCR was so important. Not because it solves all our problems, but because it at last provides some means by which to move toward solutions.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:50 PM
 
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Only reform I want to see in Health Care is for the govt to get out of all of it. They have created huge costs and debts w/ their getting into health care. The govt doesn't need to be doing all this stuff. Should be phased out. imo.

That crazy part of the part D alone is a huge subsidy to big pharma.

Which I think is a huge part of our poor health.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:57 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,430,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Only reform I want to see in Health Care is for the govt to get out of all of it. They have created huge costs and debts w/ their getting into health care. The govt doesn't need to be doing all this stuff. Should be phased out. imo.
Brilliant analysis. You do relaize that all of those other developed countries that are paying less for health care and getting more from it have some sort of universal/national system in place? The private sector may know how to make health care profitable, but it doesn't seem to have much of a clue as to how to make it affordable, accessible, or successful. Those are fairly important failings.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:12 PM
 
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Yes the govt will solve it all. Can't even charge correctly or catch all the fraud. Not all systems are the same. I didn't say govt doesn't have any place in regulation.
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:57 PM
 
22,629 posts, read 24,490,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Brilliant analysis. You do relaize that all of those other developed countries that are paying less for health care and getting more from it have some sort of universal/national system in place? The private sector may know how to make health care profitable, but it doesn't seem to have much of a clue as to how to make it affordable, accessible, or successful. Those are fairly important failings.

A lot of blame to go around..........put some of the blame on the oinker country we have become........fattest fatties around......this and type 2 diabetes helps run costs through the roof.

And yeah, putting more and more mandates on insurance companies is going to send consumers premiums which way.........hahaha.....down.................uh, no.

Forget about the royal flush........even Obama could not get the UHC that lefties dreamed of........ain't going to happen.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:38 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,430,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Yes the govt will solve it all. Can't even charge correctly or catch all the fraud. Not all systems are the same. I didn't say govt doesn't have any place in regulation.
Make up your mind. 22 minutes earlier you said: Only reform I want to see in Health Care is for the govt to get out of all of it. The goal meanwhile is not to create a perfect system. Just a better one than the one we've got. Shouldn't be all that hard considering how many other countries have figured out how to do it.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:53 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,430,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Forget about the royal flush........even Obama could not get the UHC that lefties dreamed of........ain't going to happen.
Obama wasn't pushing anybody's dream. Weren't you watching? The only thing that could have passed was something that a majority actually didn't like...but not enough to vote against it. Realizing that was why Obama was able to succeed where everryone else for a hundred years had failed. Health care -- regardless of where it comes from -- affects everybody. Keep that in mind. There is no system for lefties.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,874,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
What exactly is a "bloated government"? How would we be able to tell if we had more or less of it?

Bloated government is government that continually spends money and creates programs that the middle class cannot afford.

Are you a socialist or communist?
If yes, it makes your position much more clear, if not then I don't understand how you can really think there is no problem with the financial state of our current government.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,874,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Probably the Bilderbergers or worse yet, the Illuminati.
I don't know about the Illuminati but the Bilderberger organization, although secretive about what happens in their meetings is known and acknowledged. It's also no secret that many support, promote and are actively working towards a global government.

To dismiss people who acknowledge the obvious as wild eyed fanatics or conspiracy theorists just no longer works. Global government is an increasingly open agenda not a plot in a James Bond movie. More oversight, regulation and "management" of interactions between people and organizations who operate in the grey area between national boundaries (otherwise known as government) currently occurs and is growing in power.

Again to deny this yourself or try and dismiss others who acknowledge it is disengenuous. People are not as stupid as you would like to believe.

More governance on an international level will continue to evolve. The question is what role will the United States play and how much of our severeignty will we maintain. I argue for autonomy and sovereignty of all nations with a peer rather than subordinate relationship with global governance. I am open and honest about my position.

To bankrupt our economy and make us a debtor nation to other foreign powers places us in a subservient position to these powers. Just like we used to do to other countries when our economy was viable. It is called usury and is the equivalent of economic slavery. As government owns or creates nothing other than that which it confiscates from it's citizens - that means "we the people" will become subservient to foreign powers as we ultimately inherit the bill for our governments debt and obligations.

It is not complicated.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:20 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,430,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
Bloated government is government that continually spends money and creates programs that the middle class cannot afford.
In that case, we have the least bloated government of just about any developed country in the world. Our public sector gets into the 20-25% of GDP range where so many others are at 40% and up. Meanwhile, the term has become such a trite, worn-out, and hackneyed cliché, I'm surprised anyone with even a pretense to erudition would continue to use it.

Speaking of which, what test do you use to see if the middle class can afford a program or not? You do have one, don't you, or is that just another slogan to throw around whenever you can't think of something else to say? Keep in mind that taxes change only when Congress changes the tax laws. They do not change one bit simply because Congress funds a spending program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
Are you a socialist or communist? If yes, it makes your position much more clear, if not then I don't understand how you can really think there is no problem with the financial state of our current government.
No, I just depend on actual fact and reason a lot more than many people seem to. The current financial state of our government is meanwhile that, despite voluminous blame-shifting lies invented by the right-wing, it continues to be strained by effects of the enormous economic mess that was made by a bunch of cowboy capitalists and their laissez-faire political henchman a few years back. Would have been more of a short-term problem than it has been if this same band of boobs hadn't tried to block or derail nearly every effort at recovery and restabilization proposed since.
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