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Old 09-21-2011, 07:16 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,636,388 times
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There seem to be two conflicting strands of American political thinking that exist alongside one another. The first strand is a cynical view of politics where politicians are hopelessly corrupt and not to be trusted and so on.

Then there is a strand of "magical" thinking, where people project their frustration and hatred on a particular politician, and imagine that "things" will get better if only that politician can be dislodged from office. "Things" could be anything - the economy, the "direction" of the country, or any number of other fairly vague categories.

However, many people seem to espouse those two sentiments at the same time. On one hand, they claim to disdain politicians. On the other, they fervently seem to believe that if certain politicians are replaced, there will be a magical return to something better.

There seems to be a general tendency to assume that politicians are more powerful - more "magical" - than they actually are. Why does this type of thinking persist even among people who have seen many politicians come and go over the years, leaving mostly disappointment behind?
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:52 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
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I think american have alwqays believed that chnage can be amde by voting. Its quite the reverse of you have to take to the streets like in many countries. The vote is really beleived i as far as chnage can go. I alos think americans beleive that policians are not less or more corrupt than others in other institutions overall. They alos expect their politcal system to work and show when they are displease it isn't. Overall fine example of democracy in a republic;t hat few nations enjoy top the extent americans do. I think if you look mnay countires are not even shocked by their leaders behaviour nearly has much as americans when they get caught violating a law or immoral conduct.The pricwe is always high i US for not being what you claim to be.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,219 posts, read 29,044,905 times
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The majority of voters vote with their emotions fully engaged.

And all of us are ice to truth and fire to falsehoods. It will always be the case until the extinction of the human race: the best liar will always win!
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:03 AM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
There seem to be two conflicting strands of American political thinking that exist alongside one another. The first strand is a cynical view of politics where politicians are hopelessly corrupt and not to be trusted and so on.

Then there is a strand of "magical" thinking, where people project their frustration and hatred on a particular politician, and imagine that "things" will get better if only that politician can be dislodged from office. "Things" could be anything - the economy, the "direction" of the country, or any number of other fairly vague categories.

However, many people seem to espouse those two sentiments at the same time. On one hand, they claim to disdain politicians. On the other, they fervently seem to believe that if certain politicians are replaced, there will be a magical return to something better.

There seems to be a general tendency to assume that politicians are more powerful - more "magical" - than they actually are. Why does this type of thinking persist even among people who have seen many politicians come and go over the years, leaving mostly disappointment behind?
I think you've made some great observations and have asked some excellent questions. I wish more people thought along the same lines as you. If they did, our country wouldn't be in such a mess.

I think the answer to your question is that the majority of humans always want to put the source of power outside of themselves. People are very reluctant and afraid to take full 100% responsibility for their lives, so they always look to people and institutions outside themselves (religion, politics, celebrities, educators, etc.) to tell them what to do. Of couse, we notice this behavior in other people, but not in ourselves. The people most likely to fill our collective need for some outer authority tend to be very unethical and corrupt.

People have conflicting sentiments because they want to be powerful but they don't want the responsibility that goes with it. So the end result is they don't get the power and are ruled by a corrput elite.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:22 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,613,580 times
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It has zero to do with magical thinking and 100% to do with a failure of human beings to take personal responsiblity and use critical thinking. In many ways, I feel halfway sorry for politicans more than I hate them. 99% of the problems we face as a society could be prevented with grassroots action on the part of individuals towards themselves and each other. The very reason why we have government in the first place is because of people's lack of self control.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:26 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,420,711 times
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great post. it boils down to collective denial doesnt it.
participation by we the people would get rid of it but we are not yet ready to do so .
its gota get really really bad first and we are not there .
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Old 09-26-2011, 11:30 AM
 
2,028 posts, read 1,888,330 times
Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
There seem to be two conflicting strands of American political thinking that exist alongside one another. The first strand is a cynical view of politics where politicians are hopelessly corrupt and not to be trusted and so on.

Then there is a strand of "magical" thinking, where people project their frustration and hatred on a particular politician, and imagine that "things" will get better if only that politician can be dislodged from office. "Things" could be anything - the economy, the "direction" of the country, or any number of other fairly vague categories.

However, many people seem to espouse those two sentiments at the same time. On one hand, they claim to disdain politicians. On the other, they fervently seem to believe that if certain politicians are replaced, there will be a magical return to something better.

There seems to be a general tendency to assume that politicians are more powerful - more "magical" - than they actually are. Why does this type of thinking persist even among people who have seen many politicians come and go over the years, leaving mostly disappointment behind?
I generally agree that things have remained the same for the last 30-40 years regardless of what politicians are in charge.

However,

If politicians decide to go to war, that can affect you or your children serving in the military.

If politicians direct policies' hinders industries offshore drilling or cut education funding, that can affect your job.

If you're living off the system and politicians wants to crack down, that can affect your check or benefits.

If politicians change healthcare laws or Medicare, that can help or hurt your medical situation.

If politicians want to raise taxes, that will affect your money at the end of the year.

If politicians look the other way in regards to discrimination, that can affect your personal life, jobs, housing, and so on.

If political decisions don't affect you, that's wonderful. However, it's not reality for many people. I'm glad I'm one of those it doesn't affect but I'm able to look outside of myself and see that many other people's lives are affected by government decisions.

By the way, political affiliation doesn't matter since it affects someone regardless of what side is in power. Why else are there lobbyists and citizen uprisings when controversial policies are proposed?
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,176 posts, read 10,688,423 times
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People. Vote. On. Emotion. It is the sole overriding fact in politics.
Having been involved in politics for 30 years, from small-town thru state to Washington, I see it constantly. People do not actually sit down and look at voting records, weigh this versus that, and determine what is not only best for them but best for their country and their interactions with their neighbors on either a town or global scale. Instead, they parrot slogans and put them on t-shirts, or cheer blindly when some self-appointed, bought-and-paid-for leader tells them what is good for them and what they should believe - and then immediately tells them for whom they should vote. Then - they all go home, secure and adamant in the belief that they have actually done something.

At one political debate, it was humorous to see who had spent the most money - on paying cheering supporters to fill the seats. They all sat together, and all passed notes back and forth to tell each other when to cheer, whom to denigrate and when - and they were all so excited and proud to be there! Some had been flown in from hundreds of miles away, most had never met each other. Yet the folks who watched the debate on TV knew none of this - they were given to believe that all of these folks from the state where the debates were held were in support of this candidate!

Perception is everything, facts mean - nothing. Someone says this candidate is a loon, and that gets repeated over and over (on purpose by the opposition) to ruin that candidate. Someone says "Let's look at his voting record!" and is immediately shouted down by those who want to, need to, believe in, and who have invested all of their money in, the Emperor's new clothes.

Nothing changes, or ever will change - except to get worse. The more folks we have who refuse to be educated, to make intelligent choices, who follow every boom and bust bubble because they think (and are told) it will make them richer, who insist that this or that candidate is the next Saviour, because he promised it was so - the more folks we have who gullibly and adamantly drive this country (as well as other countries) down the tubes. The fewer people we have who understand the basics of economics and sound fiscal policy, the more folks we have who believe what politicians and all media can dictate to them about jobs and bailouts in 15 second sound bytes. People don't want to succeed and become rich, they want to tax the rich so that they can share in their efforts without putting forth any of their own. People demand fair play and justice - only for certain groups of people.

They want to find a scapegoat to blame for their own inabilities and poor choices, and find a Saviour to follow to tell them that they are not unable, and that nothing is their fault. And they are provided with their bread and circuses, their heroes and goats, in the political Coliseum.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: California
99 posts, read 375,571 times
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I would say that the entire system is dependant upon magical thinking upon the part of the populace, and that the day that the majority (or even a significant minority) stopped thinking magically, that the current system would no longer be sustainable.

In general, Americans (and they're certainly not alone in this) are trained to believe that stepping into a voting booth and pulling a few levers is somehow a magical act that will transform the nation automagically into something else.

For example, when George W. Bush was president of the U.S., a large chunk of the population fantacized about how getting that one man (or maybe that one man and the twenty-or-so members of his inner circle) out of office, would somehow turn the entire nation around.

For another example, a large chunk of the population currently in the U.S. has a fantasy that if the current president, Barack Obama, was out of office, that somehow the country would automagically transform itself.

The truth of the matter is that there are millions of people in the national, state, and local governments. There are millions of police, military members, and government agents of all kinds from CIA to ATF to Border Patrol to Coast Guard, etc.... and many of them have been there ten, twenty, even thirty years.

In addition to the acknowledged official government, there is a huge business and corporate infrastructure that basically ammounts to a shadow government.

Oftentimes, things that happen in the legislature today, were already decided on in the back rooms of private clubs, or in corporate boardrooms, and the politicians are simply doing what their financial backers have instructed them to do.

99.9999% of the people in charge of day-to-day operations of the country were exactly the same under George W. Bush as they are under Barrack H. Obama.

The entire setup of the country, and the system of economic and social control is exactly the same today (or 99.9999% the same) as it was five years ago.

To think that pushing a few levers inside a voting booth is somehow going to change anything important about how that system works is an example of magical thinking.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:09 AM
 
4,734 posts, read 4,330,801 times
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To answer your question, I am not sure Americans really view their politicians unrealistically. I think they realize that they're going to philander and make deals behind closed doors. I think what happens is that the media blows scandal out of proportion to the point where it can become a huge distraction.

The biggest problem with American voters is themselves. They don't understand the issues and don't seem to care whether they understand them or not. They assume that their everyday experience and observations are enough to help them understand what's going down on Capitol Hill. Americans 'know' what they think they know, and they're not really interested in knowing much beyond that. Right wing politicians kinda like it that way.
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