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Things are a little different now than they were in 1861. Even if we were to suppose that all the cards fell in place to generate a Civil War, one main thing people forget is the sheer firepower of military might the federal government has at its own disposal. In 1861, most of the Confederate Army could match, rifle for rifle, that of the Union soldiers in terms of firepower.
But, in this day and age, even with gun laws being as lax as they are, it's going to be very difficult for a modern day Confederacy to come up with something that could defend against, say, an AC-130 gunship circling overhead.
Granted, they could carry on like our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan with roadside bombs and various guerrilla warfare strategies but our infrastructure is set up in such a way that even that would make things difficult, to say the least.
Our government holds the ability to tap virtually any cell phone, wireless device, etc... and I simply can't imagine a network of cell towers, phone lines, and wireless providers that aren't already part of a network that could easily be tapped into. It's a lot harder to plan a revolution, to organize a rebellion, or plot to overthrow a government (or make battle plans) if you're being listened in on.
In short, the federal government has at its disposal almost every tool imaginable. The American people do not have the resolve of the Afghanis, a history of oppression like the Iraqi's, or the death-wish of terrorists. One bomb strafing in a city like Atlanta or Dallas and people would be surrendering in a heartbeat, the war would be over and that would be that.
Your analysis of military hardware and capabilities is doubtless correct, but what does it have to do with anything? Scarcely anyone wishes to revive an armed conflict between the north and the south. First, there is no longer the divisive slavery issue. Second, the vast majority of people no longer feel that they are citizens of their state first and citizens of the United States second (as Robert E. Lee felt). Our population is now very mobile and people move back and forth between north and south all the time. I would be grateful if you could explain what you're talking about.
Things are a little different now than they were in 1861. Even if we were to suppose that all the cards fell in place to generate a Civil War, one main thing people forget is the sheer firepower of military might the federal government has at its own disposal. In 1861, most of the Confederate Army could match, rifle for rifle, that of the Union soldiers in terms of firepower.
But, in this day and age, even with gun laws being as lax as they are, it's going to be very difficult for a modern day Confederacy to come up with something that could defend against, say, an AC-130 gunship circling overhead.
Granted, they could carry on like our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan with roadside bombs and various guerrilla warfare strategies but our infrastructure is set up in such a way that even that would make things difficult, to say the least.
Our government holds the ability to tap virtually any cell phone, wireless device, etc... and I simply can't imagine a network of cell towers, phone lines, and wireless providers that aren't already part of a network that could easily be tapped into. It's a lot harder to plan a revolution, to organize a rebellion, or plot to overthrow a government (or make battle plans) if you're being listened in on.
In short, the federal government has at its disposal almost every tool imaginable. The American people do not have the resolve of the Afghanis, a history of oppression like the Iraqi's, or the death-wish of terrorists. One bomb strafing in a city like Atlanta or Dallas and people would be surrendering in a heartbeat, the war would be over and that would be that.
the reason all that high tech stuff is successful is because the infrastructure to run it is protected. Thoes high tech pieces of equipment require MASSIVE support. Sure you could get a few bombing runs in but when the bomb factory shuts down becaues people are protesting guess what bombing is over or when your power gets shut off becuase power lines got blown up or an oil line or gas line gets blown up. Our enemys over seas cant touch any of that very easily but once the local law enforcement breaks down FBI can not protect every refinery or gas line going to a military base and I doubt a fighter pilot is going to bomb his own family. It is not so simple if the war were here vs over seas.
I asked this question in the P&C forum....What do imagine the trigger would be for a revolution....Whineing and crying in the street because you got huge debt and a useless education isn't going to do jack! Crying that I "have" and you "have not" so I should give you mine is just going to **** me off more.....When will we see someone do a John Brown on the local Armory? IMHO that scenario will never happen. The one remotely potential thing I see is that all the malcontents protesting instead of working will give the President an excuse to declare martial law...At that point I think there might be enough of our Military leaders who would refuse to follow those orders and split the Military....Other posters are correct, without the capability to perform combined arms operations anyone starting a revolution is cannon fodder.....
Your analysis of military hardware and capabilities is doubtless correct, but what does it have to do with anything? Scarcely anyone wishes to revive an armed conflict between the north and the south. First, there is no longer the divisive slavery issue. Second, the vast majority of people no longer feel that they are citizens of their state first and citizens of the United States second (as Robert E. Lee felt). Our population is now very mobile and people move back and forth between north and south all the time. I would be grateful if you could explain what you're talking about.
My point is that even if we did arrive at a North-South style Civil War, the days of primitive weapons are virtually over. It would be so lopsided in terms of military force that it would hardly be called a war but more of a "quelled uprising."
A bunch of rednecks in the South may have a stockpile of assault rifles but you'd be hard pressed to find them being effective at all in the face of, say, a tank driving down Main Street, USA.
The fact alone that the Federal Government possesses a vast military arsenal is enough prevention to dissuade even the most ardent anti-government militiamen from doing anything of any value for an extended period of time - without getting themselves obliterated.
If things got bad enough, martial law would be enacted, habeas corpus would be suspended (just like during the Civil War) and that would be that.
the reason all that high tech stuff is successful is because the infrastructure to run it is protected. Thoes high tech pieces of equipment require MASSIVE support. Sure you could get a few bombing runs in but when the bomb factory shuts down becaues people are protesting guess what bombing is over or when your power gets shut off becuase power lines got blown up or an oil line or gas line gets blown up. Our enemys over seas cant touch any of that very easily but once the local law enforcement breaks down FBI can not protect every refinery or gas line going to a military base and I doubt a fighter pilot is going to bomb his own family. It is not so simple if the war were here vs over seas.
Umm... I assure you we have enough stockpiled bombs to easily take care of any marching troops, holed up rebels, or to even take a few major cities if needed.
As for the support needed, it is true that things such as airplanes require massive support but a few Patriot missiles launched from a Battleship off the coast of, say, Florida really doesn't require a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.
Even if we conjectured that all military airplanes couldn't fly, you still have extraordinary amounts of ground power to include tanks, armored vehicles, etc... I'm sorry but even if all hell broke loose and a worst case scenario loomed, ordinary weapons would be no match UNLESS a guerrilla style war were waged in the same form that the Afghan's and Iraqi's waged.
But, as I said, Americans tend to have a little more respect for human life than those in the Middle East and I would truly be surprised if a bunch of Crimson Tide fans were willing to strap bombs to their chest in the middle of a military chow hall.
Good points made in regard to the military force needed to start a full blown civil war... But what if the goal of the rebels is to initiate the need for martial?... I bet I could paralyze this country with 50 guys and over the shelf small arms.....
Good points made in regard to the military force needed to start a full blown civil war... But what if the goal of the rebels is to initiate the need for martial?... I bet I could paralyze this country with 50 guys and over the shelf small arms.....
With 50 guys and over the shelf small arms you could create a lot of mayhem and certainly some localized chaos, but "paralyze the country"?? Have you been watching too much TV?
With 50 guys and over the shelf small arms you could create a lot of mayhem and certainly some localized chaos, but "paralyze the country"?? Have you been watching too much TV?
Nope, I think it's page 8 on our disaster preparedness program at work.....Time coordinated attacks with large caliber arms. Target the integrated electrical grid. Hit a relatively few of the major interconnection substations at the same time and you'll get a cascading failure. The majority of the BIG transformers come from over seas and take weeks to install. Punch one full of .50 cal holes and it's toast. There aren't enough emergency run plants to carry the load..lights out.....**** hits the fan.....
God I hope so! I can't wait, have hoped it will happen. At this point we've crossed the threshold of having diplomacy solve anything. It's time for another bloody revolution. And this time, the country needs to be divided for good. North US, and South US.
Why?
Rather than division, I would rather see compromise from both sides. I don't understand why people on both extremes believe their opinions are the end all be all. There is more than one solution to any problem. Both sides think they are 100% right, but it's not possible for both sides to be right. It is, however, possible (and I would say most likely) for both sides to be wrong.
Nope, I think it's page 8 on our disaster preparedness program at work.....Time coordinated attacks with large caliber arms. Target the integrated electrical grid. Hit a relatively few of the major interconnection substations at the same time and you'll get a cascading failure. The majority of the BIG transformers come from over seas and take weeks to install. Punch one full of .50 cal holes and it's toast. There aren't enough emergency run plants to carry the load..lights out.....**** hits the fan.....
Pretty much and do it in a gurrila like fassion and your not going to be up against cruise missles. No navy commander would fire missles into the middle of a US city, that order would cause a split in the military and possibly side arm fire fights on the bridge of a vessel.
I would never worry about F-22s or abrams tanks, the only thing keeping people in check is local law enforcement. FBI is way too small and way to disrespected they would be shot as soon as anyone saw them if the city decended into lawlessness. Martial law would be the only thing and when that happened you would have MAJOR protests. The president and congress that were ever a part of that can pretty much be assured that they were done.
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