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Old 10-30-2011, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Murphy, NC
3,223 posts, read 8,481,853 times
Reputation: 1436

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If u look at the first 200 years upto the Revolutionary war, the present day America map was Mexico, French, Native America, and the east coast was a colonized by England with other immigrants from Europe. America expanded Westward to the Pacific, then eventually Arizona and Oklahoma came on board as well as Alaska and Hawaii. It took a very long time for the modern map to look the way it does.

Unless there is a foreign power like China or Mexico or this NAFTA, I don't see America coming undone so quickly. I read yesterday that it takes a democracy 100 years to be born, and 100 years to die. Even the south has become so integrated that I don't see it fighting for independence, today that just sounds silly. If anything, in a S*** hit the fan scenerio the ruthless tribes will keep order of their territory and that's a more likely way America will be broken up within the next decade.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:32 PM
 
665 posts, read 666,708 times
Reputation: 909
Yes, the two parties are just itching for a fight. Nothing would make both parties happier than removing the other party. It's pretty sad when half of your government would love to get rid of 50% of the voting population. Both parties do it, but the liberal rhetoric and us vs. them that Obama is dishing out lately is inciting violence. Shameful.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:39 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 3,418,280 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mn311601 View Post
Yes, the two parties are just itching for a fight. Nothing would make both parties happier than removing the other party. It's pretty sad when half of your government would love to get rid of 50% of the voting population. Both parties do it, but the liberal rhetoric and us vs. them that Obama is dishing out lately is inciting violence. Shameful.
I can't agree with this. Aside from the rhetoric they spew to keep their members wound up there is little meaningful difference between to two mainstream parties. They argue back and forth to give us the illusion of choice while working together to grow government and enrich themselves at our expense.

The biggest fear of the mainstream parties is that the citizenry wake up and recognize how badly we've been screwed by our politicians.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:55 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,492,628 times
Reputation: 2569
I dont think we are headed for a civil war. Theres no geographical lines this time. Theres not even really idealogical lines. The two major parties WANT things polarized but both want to water down freedom & strengthen government. I cant believe how many people blindly state that the GOP today is Conservative. Nothing could be further from the truth. Conservatism has nothing to do with religion or with corporate America. Conservatism is simply having a conservative outlook on things. A conservative person doesn't advocate spending billions, heck trillions in someone elses war. A Conservative looks here & doesn't worry about the EU or middle east. A Conservative would have gone after Saddam, killed him & come home. A conservative would have watched waited & got Bin Butthead without spending billions & fighting a civil war for another country. A conservative would budget useing the money we have & if things need to be cut a conservative just cuts them.
What we have today are just two sides of a liberal coin. Nothing could be more liberal than thinking the govt can dictate abortion, nothing could be more liberal than spending tax money to save businesses. Our current GOP is as liberal as Hillery Clinton, theyre just liberal in a different direction, but conservative they arent. What they are though is sucessful, they are sucessful because so many people who call themselves conservative go out & pull the GOP lever at elections without realizing that their just getting more of the same old BS whether they win or lose.
What we do NEED is a real constitutional conservative congress & president & we need it BAD!
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, IN
67 posts, read 64,790 times
Reputation: 91
OK, here are my thoughts. I don't know if there will be a civil war, but due to the large numbers of unemployed and underemployed people, we might witness the end of America as we know it, by the end of this decade. How? Allow me to elucidate. With so many people living under the poverty line, and with so many people left with nothing more to lose, we will ultimately witness the final byproducts of the collective desperation that's on the rise: looting, protesting, violence, stealing, etc.

Ethics? Morals? Forget about those quaint concepts. If a person is hungry enough, they're capable of anything. And desperation is the catalyst for so many unsavory scenarios (the most extreme being cannibalism, of course).

And when the chaos can't be properly contained in a land with democratic ideals, such as ours, the U.S. Constitution will be completely discarded and a dictatorship will be installed. I can honestly see this happening by the end of this decade. What else can be done with millions of hungry zombies prowling the alleys looking for "meat?"

I hope I'm wrong. But America has a population of 300 million people, and too many of them won't stand a chance. And despite the fact that there aren't enough cages to put everyone in, you just might notice the homeless disappearing at a rapid rate. Would this government transform into a totalitarian regime and declare war on its own people? I believe it's not only possible, but very likely.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:33 PM
 
2,810 posts, read 4,223,889 times
Reputation: 2056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathagos View Post
I'm only 47 years old, but I have seen (in my opinion) the United States becoming more and more polarized.

It seems that there are two "camps" in America:

The first group are those who many label Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, and Socialists. These are people who want the government to have as big a role as possible in everyday life, want to take from those that have and give to those that have not, want a tolerance for all people (whether a majority population considers those individual's behaviors "normal" or not), and wants to teardown mainstream society so that there are no "norms" other than what the government can legislate as your freedoms, regardless of the Constitution.

The second group are those that are labeled Republicans, Conservatives, Traditionalists, Neocons, and Evangelicals. These are people that want to preserve their way of life at the cost of individual freedoms, want a society that borders on theocracy, uses Christianity as the basis for every decision (and expect others, regardless of religion, to accept their word on faith), blindly put corporations and the rich at the pinnacle of society, and use the Constitution as a finalized product or shield, and not the living document in which it was intended.

I have spun both these political beliefs in a negative fashion, but I could have just as easily spoken positively about both, as well. That is because I believe it is these negative views that are tearing the nation apart, not the positive ones. I will also openly admit that I lean more towards one side than the other, but have tried to appear neutral for the purpose of the question.

Because of these two polarized political factions, I think they are using legislation, smears, and outright lies to get people to polarize and join their causes. And, I do believe they are succeeding.

So, this all goes to my question (in the subject line), with America as polarized as it is, and the increasing polarization that happens every day, do you believe we are headed towards another civil war? If so, what can we do to prevent it? If not, why not (do you disagree we're more polarized as a nation now than we have been in recent times (last 100 years)?
I don't think it would ever come down to an all out war with live bullets, as it did during the civil war. Maybe just mini riots, like the recent "Occupy" movement. The military is too strong these days and would shut any revolt down ASAP.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Due North of Potemkin City Limits
1,237 posts, read 1,632,523 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
I don't think it would ever come down to an all out war with live bullets, as it did during the civil war.
It's still a good country. People are crazy now because of the internet. Information is relayed at the speed of light, and human beings by nature are more interested in bad news than good news. Things seem really ****ed up these days, when in reality.....our country (and our world for that matter) is no more ****ed up than it was 1,000 years ago. It's actually a lot better when you think about it. There was always terrorism, illegal immigration, financial turmoil and political corruption. You just didn't hear about it. Now you do. In contrast, at least we don't have to deal with the bubonic plague, fascism, a Soviet nuclear threat, or riding on horseback to get to our destinations. See, life just sucks in different ways now. Horray!
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,703 posts, read 9,800,583 times
Reputation: 9731
Why have a civil war?
Governments are instituted to secure rights - a good thing.
But what is the current government doing?
Attacking rights - a bad thing.
If you need a license (permission) or pay a tax to live, work, travel, buy, sell, run a business, own a dog, marry, transmit, fly, build a house, cut hair, you aren't free anymore.

If government can compel you to work for the benefit of another, you're a slave, part time or full time notwithstanding.

If government can take your property from you, you're a victim of government, not protected by government.

Of course, the second half of "Governments are instituted among men" is to govern those who consent. Do you know how and when you gave consent to all those violations of your rights to life, liberty and property?

Sadly, few Americans know, which means any civil war or upheaval will be that much more tragic. At least the Revolutionaries of 1775 knew what they were opposed to.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,666,956 times
Reputation: 32302
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Why have a civil war?
Governments are instituted to secure rights - a good thing.
But what is the current government doing?
Attacking rights - a bad thing.
If you need a license (permission) or pay a tax to live, work, travel, buy, sell, run a business, own a dog, marry, transmit, fly, build a house, cut hair, you aren't free anymore.

If government can compel you to work for the benefit of another, you're a slave, part time or full time notwithstanding.

If government can take your property from you, you're a victim of government, not protected by government.

Of course, the second half of "Governments are instituted among men" is to govern those who consent. Do you know how and when you gave consent to all those violations of your rights to life, liberty and property?

Sadly, few Americans know, which means any civil war or upheaval will be that much more tragic. At least the Revolutionaries of 1775 knew what they were opposed to.
The revolutionaries of 1775 lived in a society where other people's freely chosen actions and activities had much less potential for general harm. Let's take your example of flying. It is not clear whether you are objecting to the requirement to obtain a license to fly a plane (there was not such thing in the very early days of aviation) or to the requirement to pay a tax on the purchase of a ticket to fly as a passenger on a plane piloted by someone else. But in either case you are way off-base. In the first case, planes are now far too complex to allow everyone the "freedom" to fly one, and in the second case, the taxes support the FAA regulation of flying such as by air traffic control. Would you really want to board an airliner under circumstances where there was no system in place to prevent airplanes from crashing into each other?
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:44 AM
 
9,352 posts, read 10,142,239 times
Reputation: 7139
It takes more than hatred to start a war. In the 19th century Northerners and Southerners hated each other but they didn't go to war with each other over their hatred, When I read primary documents from that era and earlier it seems some southerners thought their best slaves were of better stock than Northerners.

There is no bounty so to speak of in this country that the victor of a civil war would win. Fair access to labor was the bounty in the 19th century. The industrial age, Gold Rush , and new lands in the west opening up put labor in high demand. Today American's social , political , moral, and economic lives exist on a wide spectrum. There maybe thousands of people who feel abortions are wrong but only a tiny spectrum of them think its okay to blow up clinics and shoot doctors.

Civil wars are not fought over ideologies. Even in tribal countries where civil war is perpetual, the ruling ideology gets to control a single resource like , oil, diamonds, opium, or American foreign aid dollars. There will always people who feel they have lost everything and think they are on the losing end of what ever direction the country in moving in. The common solution is to take up arms. They would be wise to look at what happens when disinfranchised people resort to violence. Like the Native Americans at Wounded Knee, Black Panthers, KKK and all the rest they were infiltrated an annhilalated. People will rarely fight for what they want but they will kill to protect what they have.
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