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Old 01-18-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: now nyc
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(If there is a thread like this then please direct me towards it.)

It seems that regardless of if it is the poor of the 3rd world nations or the poor of the developed world, the worse-off people end up having more kids, on average, than the stable and well-off people that are actually more capable of supporting their child's needs.

Like, you see programs and informercials of people living in crushing poverty and their kids starving to death and it leaves the mind wondering, why create babies you can't afford and you know will suffer? And please don't give me the talk about how they can't afford condoms, they give out condoms for free in many of these countries. Plus, if they think they can't afford condoms then how the heck could they afford supporting a child for decades? Don't blame lack of access to education, it's common-sense.

Even in America, it seems like the biggest idiots have the most kids and then you see all these professionals, successful and smart people with no kids or only one child. What is going on here?

Why is this the case? (and yes, I know there are many exceptions to the rule so please don't knitpick)

Last edited by LongIslandPerson; 01-18-2012 at 08:22 PM..

 
Old 01-18-2012, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Sherwood
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I think this is a fallacy. Both wealthy and poor people have the most children, and "middle-class" people can't afford children, and have the fewest.

Wealthy people have resources and in some societies it is still important to create the next generation of inheritors. "Poor" people in the US have leisure and resources to have children. In 3rd world countries the poor are usually in rural areas and in the absence of money, having children is the best way to be able to run a farming enterprise.

In the US (and it looks like the same in places like Korea), the middle class has to work, and does not get subsidized housing, so we cannot afford to have as many children.
 
Old 01-19-2012, 09:24 AM
 
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I think that in third world countries where soooo many children die before they reach adult-hood, having multiple children is an instinctual method of preserving the survival of the race.....just a thought.....kinda like when my chickens are all getting old...the hens become very broody in their quest to hatch new life......probably the reason that the very rich, and successful professionals have less(or none) is because the children might impede on their true love...the quest for more money.....and when you think about it...having children is the ONE thing that no matter HOW poor you are, you can still do it.

Last edited by purehuman; 01-19-2012 at 09:33 AM..
 
Old 01-20-2012, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
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My theory on this has to do with characteristics which favor being poor or being successful financially. If you live for the moment without much thought to planning for the future, then you are more likely to be, or remain, poor. If you are surrounded by like-minded people and you see that having children is just what is done, then you will tend to do it. Practicing birth control may not seem to be all that much trouble or require all that much fore-thought, but it does require some. Condoms are not fool-proof. The pill is better, but that requires getting a prescription, filling it, and then remembering to take the pills. So some self-discipline is required. Successful people are likely to regard that small amount of self-discipline as minimal, but I believe it is more than many people possess.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 07:22 AM
Status: "It's peanut-butter-jelly time, peanut-butter-jelly time!" (set 21 days ago)
 
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Keep in mind too that poor people in underdeveloped nations have less or no access to birth control or abortion, while in some cultures it may be against their morals to be on birth control or get an abortion. In more developed nations, money may be the issue for why people choose not to be on birth control or get an abortion.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 01:04 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
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The "poor" aren't all alike. But for a start, depending on their culture and background, it's a combination of being devoutly Catholic (and not questioning or going against the ban on birth control), and not being college education in a way that would cause them to question the Catholic church's directives. The bible say to "go forth and multiply" and they do. The bible says that to spill seed on the ground is bad. And the bible says that sex is for procreation purposes only, not for pleasure.

And some cultures believe in having large families. Part of that is because historically in their home countries, there were high instances of infant and child mortality. In some cultures, having many kids is proof of a man's virility. And also in some cultures, having many kids would be a source of free labour for them on their farm or business.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Arizona
363 posts, read 441,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIslandPerson View Post
(If there is a thread like this then please direct me towards it.)

Like, you see programs and informercials of people living in crushing poverty and their kids starving to death and it leaves the mind wondering, why create babies you can't afford and you know will suffer? And please don't give me the talk about how they can't afford condoms, they give out condoms for free in many of these countries. Plus, if they think they can't afford condoms then how the heck could they afford supporting a child for decades? Don't blame lack of access to education, it's common-sense.

Why is this the case? (and yes, I know there are many exceptions to the rule so please don't knitpick)
I must disagree. You really think pregnancy is "common sense" in underdeveloped countries? Really? Thinking back to before I received any sex education as a youngster, I sure didn't have that "common sense." How would anyone here know what "common sense" is in the middle of Africa? Those people could probably say the same to you if you showed up and didn't know how certain things were done. Women are also subservient to men in many underdeveloped countries and will do what their husbands want. How can you be so sure condoms are handed out in every single village in the middle of nowhere? Our culture and way of thinking is so vastly different from those countries. To judge them for having babies is wrong. More than likely, they don't have the education to know any different. I'm pretty sure they aren't watching tv from their huts.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 03:59 PM
 
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In places that don't have it, rural electrification is the best method of birth control ever invented.

Otherwise, people should perhaps see how far back in history one has to go in order to find five, six, and seven live births per woman having been the norm in this country as well. The availability of reliable birth control, major advances in pre-natal, infant, and childhood medical care, and the entry of women into the labor force are what have made the US and a relative handful of similar countries odd. The rest of the world is still stuck on normal.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 04:37 PM
 
1,275 posts, read 1,305,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkytoes View Post
I think this is a fallacy.
It is most definitely not a fallacy when you look at statistical data. Look up the highest and lowest GNP/GDP by country, or per capita income or whatever other valid measure of wealth, then look at the highest and lowest birth rates or death rates by country. Look at the interaction between these data trends over years, and there's no coincidence. There is absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, a correlation of some kind. In Africa, with it's higher crime rates and overall violence where people die more often, maybe (as in, I'm just guessing out loud here) survivors need to have more children to replace their other children who just died from AIDS, gunshot wounds or hyena maulings.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 10:44 AM
 
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The poor are poor because they make bad decisions or are the heirs to bad decisions. The chief among these is having children outside of a committed relationship (i.e., not using contraception). More than anything, this practically ensures a life of privation and underachievement. Yet when we point out this fact, something that's obvious to anyone with a two-digit IQ, the word "judgmental" flies around.

Well, perhaps it's time to be judgmental. If a person is too stupid to have sex without birth control, the consequences won't just affect them. It will pull the entirety of society into the business of raising this woman's progeny. The parents. The extended family. The universe of social programs and charities. All because we're not to criticize people who make incredibly stupid decisions. I mean, everybody knows where babies come from.

What's more, lest you think I'm being one-sided about matters, I think we need to start judging the men who father children and then walk away. Shame them. Ostracize them. Turn them into a warning for others. Because until we start making an example out of bad and destructive behavior, then these patterns will just be the norm. And we, the responsible members of society, will continue to pay the price in any number of different ways.

Hey, I'm all about helping people who help themselves. I'm not all about subsidizing people who make boneheaded decisions and continue to make them.
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