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The South, and conservative rural areas nationwide, may have higher teen pregnancies and unwed mothers, it is true, but the urban Northeast and California probably more than makes up for it in the number of abortions and the use of contraception which some religious people are against and it is not in others position to judge other citizens religious beliefs.
I would think women in the North are probably "looser" but they use more birth control and readily undergo abortions when birth control fails while a southern girl would carry the baby to term and raise it the best she can. A lot of places in the South are still very reluctant to allow casinos and strip clubs, and some counties are even dry. Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina and I believe Georgia don't even have a casino outside of Indian reservations, while Louisiana and Mississippi do, and I believe Tennessee as well. Here in Maryland which is a border state the rural areas are more Southern and there are some dry counties, some places that don't serve beer on Sundays, yet its more the nanny state liberals who are against casino expansion while the conservatives are more pro-businesss and think of it as a way to avoid further tax hikes.
Personally I don't understand the logic behind a dry county since people can always drive to another jurisdiction and buuy their alcohol. I was born in the Deep South and consider myself a religious conservative but I'm okay with liquor stores, casinos, and strip clubs as long as they are well regulated I am NOT okay with prostitution, gay marriage, marijuana, or late term abortions.
Having lived in the south for 5+ years now I believe there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in this region. Southerners like to smoke, drink, dance, and have a good time yet they also profess to be "good Christian folk." On one hand (many) southerners will Bible thump and look at you sideways when you confess to atheism or less than conservative view points and will at times assume an air of moral righteousness. Yet on the other hand they will out drink, out smoke and out party you. And the south is the teenage mom capital of the United States.
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Originally Posted by banjomike
Southern culture is much deeper and wider than just rednecks. The contradictions and hypocrisies of the South are not limited to it alone; they are everywhere, in all corners of our nation.
I think that the South as a region only tends to present them more vividly, as happens with all the other things that come from the South- southern literature, music, manners and mannerisms, speech and it's many cultures have colored all the rest of America forever, and will always do so forever. I sure don't know why this is, but it is so.
I really do not know the statistics about teenagers becoming parents, let alone having out-of-wedlock babies, but I do agree about the cognitive dissonance, and especially agree with Banjomike's eloquent description.
I think the South, in all its complexity, is much the same as the rest of our country-- striving to move forward. Sometimes the Spanish moss kind of gets in the way, but it's so pretty.
I've been living in a small town in the South (far north Florida) for 7 years now. There are plenty of secular moderates such as myself, but they don't call it the Bible Belt for nothing. The line between church and state can be blurry.
Many, many women my 50-something age are already grandmas several times over.
People still go to church on Wednesday night, but those same people might be fooling around till the early hours on Friday night. We read all about it in the local newspaper.
This is NOT to say that my town is a misbegotten backwater out of a Southern Gothic novel--it's not.
And like AnnieA, I have encountered genuine kindness, not just superficial courtesy, and true understanding, not just condescending tolerance.
A lot less puritanical than it's projected. They are very wary of outsiders, so unless you grew up with certain families, you'll likely not be invited to the party, but you can bet there's a party somewhere. They'll ostracize an outsider and even one of their own if there's something to be gained by it. They have convienent carpet to sweep their vices under as well.
speaking as a small town southerner who grew up in a southern baptist church, as well as being the daughter of a man who did three federal terms for bootlegging, contradictions seem to exist more in the south in terms of morality than anywhere else i have been. its human nature really- repression on the one hand breeds a party animal on the other.
the morality of the bootlegger and the the morality of a drug dealer in the south really seems to be two different animals. bootleggers seemed to be a little more benign, less prone to violence, and generally just trying to keep food on the table. older people, most of em, look more askance at the revenuers than they do the bootleggers. drug dealers are a whole different story, who rend the fabric of society in a way the small town, rural bootlegger didn't. generally he was a part of the fabric of any small town, and people understood it was just someone trying to make a living. it isn't hypocrisy in that regard. preachers would buy it, mothers with children and no good husbands would sell it, and the cops would turn a blind eye. my best friend growing up, her grandma was a notorious bootlegger by the name of jolie blond. the cops used to take her alcohol to sell illegally on sundays because they knew she had 11 kids to raise. but once she started dealing drugs, it became another story.
i think alot of what some would call hypocrisy has a certain logic to small town folk under certain circumstances. it may look like a repudiation, but isn't. even the men drinking in the parking lot of a church- well, you don't drink in god's house. and you may have gotten pregnant, but the greater sin is NOT keeping the baby. and i agree, in terms of teen pregnancy, it really is a matter of education and available resources. if you think people raise a stink about sex ed, think of the stink they raise at the idea of handing out condoms or demonstrating their use!
but the puritans and so on, all the dour faced only-wear-gray types, i tend to associate those folks with the mayfair, founding fathers sort. generally, farther north. down south was a lot more chock-a-block in terms of its settling, and alot more people moved there who just wanted to be left the hell alone.
another great book that has alot of great info about the south is "salvation on sand mountain". can't remember the author, but he was a southerner who documented several snake handling churches in north carolina, tennessee and georgia. he wound up being converted to their thinking, and traces back alot of the bedrock thinking of the original scotch-irish (which is what i am as well) who moved there. for instance, they were a xenophobic people who were used to border wars. they did NOT like catholics, or "popery" they called it. they resented anyone but god telling them what to do and damn those who would try. ergo, a certain built-in-lawlessness might have developed from that. they also had a propensity to be highly, somewhat superstitiously religious. i know in my family, things like ghosts, ESP, dreams, etc. were a part of our storytelling and our daily lives, really. my mother would have prophetic dreams, taught us that a dream had on the first night in a new place was important, and could "smell" death before it happened. it took elementary school to realize not every family was like that. but it seems the older mountain folk were very, very much like that. its normal. tie all that together and you have a very interesting people who do things for their own reasons, but it isnt hypocrisy full stop all the time. SOMETIMES, tho, oh, yeah. the old "turning a blind eye".
I have lived in the south for most of my life. There is not one southern culture. There are many different cultures. You can tell a lot by hearing a person speak. If you have lived here for a while, you can tell a lot by their accents. Based on my experience, I can detect three types of white southern accents...at least in Georgia. 1) the Aristocratic Southern accent, Jimmy Carter, Zell Miller, Sam Nunn and to a lesser extent Ted Turner, 2) There is the run of the mill southern accent, 3) And there is poor southern accent.
Some will disagree, but that has been my experience.
I have lived in the South all my life.. SC, NC, Ga, Al, Va, Fl. I think the old Southern culture from decades past ('40's and '50's esp.) is struggling to survive (maybe even dying off) in these modern global times.
I think the influx of people from other areas moving in, moving out, co-mingling are affecting major changes in the Old Southern ways and customs. Just my thoughts.
Reading "The Help" I couldn't help but notice how well she pinpointed the old South that I grew up in. My, how things changed!
I have never heard the Southern Culture described as puritanical. Bible Thumpers -yes- Bible Belt because of Protestants/Baptists with their revivals, evangelists and the many doctrines preached to have their denominations as the Only Ones Going to Heaven.
Southern culture includes cajun cookin, barbecue, barn dances, celebrating 4th of July, Easter, Halloween, Thanksgiving with food and family. Music is big in the south because of the black rhythm and blues, country music because of the ranch and farm lifestyle, beer joints for the cowboy that still runs in the blood of southwestern men. We have a rural lifestyle or a fishing/coastal water lifestyle.
Are you insinuating that Noreasters dont drink --not sure but I believe there are many Catholics up there and they drink, and enjoy it. Not saying they are drunks but ther do imbibe.
The different ethnic groups define our culture/tradition. Religions define our beliefs. And church is the best place a hypocrite can be.
No such celebrations in Vicksburg!
Not sure if you aware of this, but the Catholic Church has no prohibitions on alcohol, and in fact most priests drink, along with most Catholics. Even if they had said prohibition, Catholics would ignore it en masse just like birth control. Catholicism is very, very diff from the evangelical religions of the South.
The religious influence on the South while still higher than the rest of the country is not nearly as influential. People are seriously overrating the presence of religion in the south nowadays as it has REALLY tapered off. Many people are two faced when it comes to religion. They may associate to a certain religion (when talking to other people) but in reality. They don't care and perhaps don't even believe.
Well, in my part of the south, dang near central N. Carolina, somewhere in-between Greensboro and Raleigh, I suspect the term "puritanical" simply does not really apply. This is a particularly well educated portion of the state, quite a few Colleges and Universities in this area (and YES!!!!! basketball is dang near the state religion, in these parts "Hoops" is played quite well and is considered an art form as well as a sport) Designated drivers are dang near a necessity because the state has little patience with drunk drivers.
IMHO, the religiousness of the people in the south is mostly on the surface, that is its a facade, its really fake in most cases. I've lived in NC and Texas in two locations over the last 20 years. EG: When I first bought beer in NC, they asked me if I wanted to put it in a paper bag. Why would I want that? Answer, just in case someone saw you.
This is what spawns this joke. Why do you always take two Baptists with you when you go fishing? Answer, because if you only take one, they will drink all your beer.
LOL, I had to laugh at this. The reason you were asked if you wanted a bag was because the open container laws....even high school kids know this. It's not because "someone" might see you.....
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open container laws regulate or prohibit the existence of open containers of alcohol in certain areas. Typically these laws concern public places, such as parks and vehicles. The purpose of these laws is to restrict public intoxication
I come from a long line of Baptists and I do not know of one true Baptist who will do as you say. If so, they are what we call..."back slid Baptists.." LOL.
When I was young I would hear my older relatives joke about Catholics who 'got drunk on Saturday night, beat their wife and kids, did penance on Sunday morning and were all clean on Monday..' So, there are jokes all around, it don't make it true.....
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