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Old 08-08-2012, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,250 posts, read 10,020,659 times
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The media and politicians use euphemisms to ‘spin’ things to suit their own agenda. Even in this election season, it’s difficult to come-up with any real, positive, sustained economic news. Some sources, including the “Invisible Depression” article (summary below), say that the media/political version’ of the truth falls far short of the full story. http://money.msn.com/investing/the-i...rketwatch.aspx


1. Over 44-million Americans are now receiving food stamps (1 in 7)[
2. The poverty rate is likely to come-in at almost 16% in September census release
3. Beyond depressed ‘official’ 9% jobless rates, over 50% of jobs pay less than $34K
4 .Extending Unemployment to 99 weeks artificially removes many from jobless rolls
5. 'Shadow inventory’ in the housing market is masking the true state of the market
6, A national debt of $16 Trillion is the highest % of GDP in history

I’m not trying to spread ‘doom and gloom’ or ‘gore anyone’s political ox’, but, I fear that the politicians are ‘fiddling while America burns’ …. And Americans are being distracted from the real issues (and solutions) by sound bytes and ‘touched-up’ images.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,416 posts, read 25,235,686 times
Reputation: 16464
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
The media and politicians use euphemisms to ‘spin’ things to suit their own agenda. Even in this election season, it’s difficult to come-up with any real, positive, sustained economic news. Some sources, including the “Invisible Depression” article (summary below), say that the media/political version’ of the truth falls far short of the full story. The invisible depression is here - financial crisis - MSN Money


1. Over 44-million Americans are now receiving food stamps (1 in 7)[
2. The poverty rate is likely to come-in at almost 16% in September census release
3. Beyond depressed ‘official’ 9% jobless rates, over 50% of jobs pay less than $34K
4 .Extending Unemployment to 99 weeks artificially removes many from jobless rolls
5. 'Shadow inventory’ in the housing market is masking the true state of the market
6, A national debt of $16 Trillion is the highest % of GDP in history

I’m not trying to spread ‘doom and gloom’ or ‘gore anyone’s political ox’, but, I fear that the politicians are ‘fiddling while America burns’ …. And Americans are being distracted from the real issues (and solutions) by sound bytes and ‘touched-up’ images.
You could say that, but at the same time I think that people were probably more easily persuaded 40-50 years ago. We have so much more information at our hands today, we are much more skeptical and for the most part we're fed up with the politicians. Look back in the past, no one could go online.. propaganda was much more powerful back then too. People have been manipulated by the governments since the beginning of time. Think about it, humans have been enslaving and killing other people for thousands of years, and why? Because some rich politician is telling them to. If anything, in that respect.. things are better now than they were in the past.

We're not living through an invisible depression, but for most humans.. unless it is affecting them directly; it's not really a problem.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:17 AM
 
11,685 posts, read 13,105,481 times
Reputation: 30982
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
....We're not living through an invisible depression, but for most humans.. unless it is affecting them directly; it's not really a problem.
Leaving the question of "an invisible depression" aside, what I have highlighted above seems no different than having a head-in-the-sand attitude toward life. When your head is in the sand it is the surest way to guarantee that problems will suddenly come up and bite you in the butt.

My opinion is that Americans, with the help of their politicians, are so gleefully busy hating each other (just read C-D forums for daily examples) that they are clueless as to the parlous state of their nation's finances.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,904 posts, read 18,471,181 times
Reputation: 13738
Yes.

"Depression" is a scary word so it isn't used though... nor is it as bad as the more famous depression of the 30's. But if interest rates were not artificially being kept so insanely low we'd almost certainly find ourselves in far a worse circumstance that would at least be the equal of the 30's.

We are also fighting a unconventional World War that has (and is in the process of) toppling all the unfriendly governments of the Middle East. "World War" is scary too, so we call it "the Arab Spring" instead.

Aren't euphemisms great?
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC and Gaithersburg, MD
113 posts, read 155,929 times
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We are living in perilous times. I believe that the economy is far worse than anyone reports in the media. It sickens me that so many people are unemployed or underemployed, and the media focuses on all stupidity that is out there. I really don't care about hearing about which celebrity got divorced, or politicians talking about birth control, let's talk about getting people back to work and improving this horrific economy! I always cringe when I hear the unemployment rate quoted on any of the major news networks. The truth is that it is so much worse than what they report.

America is indeed in a depression, but nobody wants to admit it. The number one focus of the country right now should be getting the economy back on track.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Mt Pleasant, SC
638 posts, read 1,372,573 times
Reputation: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
You could say that, but at the same time I think that people were probably more easily persuaded 40-50 years ago. We have so much more information at our hands today, we are much more skeptical and for the most part we're fed up with the politicians. Look back in the past, no one could go online.. propaganda was much more powerful back then too. People have been manipulated by the governments since the beginning of time. Think about it, humans have been enslaving and killing other people for thousands of years, and why? Because some rich politician is telling them to. If anything, in that respect.. things are better now than they were in the past.

We're not living through an invisible depression, but for most humans.. unless it is affecting them directly; it's not really a problem.
Maybe I'm romanticizing, but I think for the most part, there was more honesty, innocence and character in people in the '30's.. The masses of people were affected; whereas today it's "sectional". Their situation was dire.. No one had to be persuaded, you just had to look around and you saw it, unless you were one of the very few that were well off. Who needed propaganda to be pursuaded in the '30's?

I think "propaganda" is far worse today than anything people of the '30's had to deal with. We have cablevision, news channels, financial networks, talk shows, many of them so biased. The media brings us every possible pov there is to offer. Just pick and choose "your version of the truth".

Many of us are left confused, cynical, skeptical and wondering what *the truth* really is. And too many of us don't even want to know the truth, because then we'd realize what dire shape we're in, so we stick our heads in the sand and play our Pollyanna games.

So are things really all that much better nowadays with all our intellectual, technological and global progress? Or is it simply our egotism telling us we're so much better than others before us? Could it possibly be that we're delusional?.. Maybe too optimistic? (the economy bounced back before, so it will again.). But could there also come a time when things didn't get better?
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake
971 posts, read 1,135,236 times
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My neighbor that bought my old house and spends the summer months in southwest Missouri was in our local Walmart shopping for her 6 kids and had 4 gallons of milk. I mentioned that she must buy lots of milk for her 6 kids. She said yes and she has a hard time getting used to paying $3.24 per gallon when she pays $.99 cents a gallon in Ft. Worth. It's my belief that inflation is on us. Soon we may be paying $5.00 for a loaf of bread.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:07 AM
 
16,183 posts, read 20,200,340 times
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We might not be paying $5.00 for a loaf of bread but just wait for a few months and watch food prices go up 25%, maybe more---AGAIN!

I live in western Colorado (Mesa County). Our unemployment rate a couple months ago was 9.2%. When the oil shale situation went into the tank it climbed to 11.5% in maybe 2 years time. During this stretch over the last few years:

My chiropractor had to lay off two people on his staff.
The other chiropractor in town closed his business and joined one of the firms in Grand Junction.
My favorite mom and pop restaurant laid off a dishwasher.
Many other businesses thought to be "recession proof" are having huge problems.
For about a year and a half we led the state in personal bankruptcies.

The people holding signs on the interstate are there all day. Then they go home-if they have one to go to. A good number of them are living in their cars. Others live in tents near the Colorado River. There isn't quite as many as opposed to 2009, but it is still bad. This area has always had few homeless shelters.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:41 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,254,652 times
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Yes, for a number of reasons. Because people mistakenly think a depression is merely a more severe recession when they really are different in causes and how they play out.

First a recession is essentially a price adjustment. A depression is a balance sheet adjustment. It typically stems from a credit bubble and takes any number of years to unwind. We are in a depression and, just as the Great Depression really began getting underway in 1928 as rural banks began to collapse and before the Stock Market Crash, the real depression likely began in late 2007 or early 2008 when players such as Bear Stearns began going belly-up. Right now, even though real estate has shown signs of stabilizing we're seeing it continue to play out in municipal bankruptcies and on the international scene in Europe and (Gulp) China. What's more, when you take underemployment into account, we are looking at a situation almost as bad as the 30s. Sure, there are no soup kitchens. Instead, the people who are on the dole might be standing next to you in the checkout lane of the supermarket, swiping their card instead.

But the signs are there for anyone brave enough to look beyond the happy talk foisted on us by politicians. Even today, the unemployment levels remain elevated, household net worth is not even close to being what it was five years ago, and large numbers of homeowners remain underwater. Until that number begins to come down, we'll remain in serious straits. Pray that there will not be some new serious dislocation in the next year or the cycle will start all over again.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:40 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,426 posts, read 16,710,389 times
Reputation: 16435
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Yes, for a number of reasons. Because people mistakenly think a depression is merely a more severe recession when they really are different in causes and how they play out.

First a recession is essentially a price adjustment. A depression is a balance sheet adjustment. It typically stems from a credit bubble and takes any number of years to unwind. We are in a depression and, just as the Great Depression really began getting underway in 1928 as rural banks began to collapse and before the Stock Market Crash, the real depression likely began in late 2007 or early 2008 when players such as Bear Stearns began going belly-up. Right now, even though real estate has shown signs of stabilizing we're seeing it continue to play out in municipal bankruptcies and on the international scene in Europe and (Gulp) China. What's more, when you take underemployment into account, we are looking at a situation almost as bad as the 30s. Sure, there are no soup kitchens. Instead, the people who are on the dole might be standing next to you in the checkout lane of the supermarket, swiping their card instead.

But the signs are there for anyone brave enough to look beyond the happy talk foisted on us by politicians. Even today, the unemployment levels remain elevated, household net worth is not even close to being what it was five years ago, and large numbers of homeowners remain underwater. Until that number begins to come down, we'll remain in serious straits. Pray that there will not be some new serious dislocation in the next year or the cycle will start all over again.
Isn't it interesting that they put out the U6 but the 'offical' reports don't use it. And that we have social programs to help the pain are not ever cited by the govermnent. How many have kids between 18 and 26 where in some areas unemployment is above 20 to 30 percent? What we're seeing is the quantum shift into a global economy and its slowly echoing all over the world. China built a lot of huge malls at the top of the curve, but now they have virtual ghost towns, and empty shut malls. I think what we're coming to is a place where the world economies even out. What this means for really poor places is they get a bit more for their labor. What it means for the rest is it will settle at a much lower place than they are used to.

The middle class grew and prospered under pay which allowed it to, and now that that is shrinking, so will the middle class continute to. The world economy is run by the interests of multinationals and if they can make it cheaper somewhere else, they will.

Not good for those out there just ending high school or college who had great plans for life which in many cases will get scaled down quite a bit.
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