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Anecdotes like this always rub me the wrong way, because they imply that there is something admirable about choosing to endure tremendous suffering, and that its something we should all strive for.
Maybe there are some people who wouldn't want to live under such conditions as the woman described in this quote. And I don't see anything wrong with that.
I believe we all need to decide what we are willing to tolerate in life, and not push our choices in that area onto others.
And given the extensive medical technology we have available in the US (and other developed nations), it seems inhuman, to me, that we will provide a peaceful means of death for our pets when we realize that to do so is to relieve them of suffering, but we decide that humans should be kept alive at all costs.
Why would a dog or cat's suffering be treated as worse than a human's? I believe its because the idea that people could decide they don't want to suffer anymore, and are ready to die, scares us (collectively) on some level. If that option is available, it would mean we need to question how much suffering a human being should endure. And each person is going to have a very different answer to that question.
ITA!
I HATE the word "inspiration". I have severe rheumatoid arthritis, and I don't feel obligated to be anybody's "inspiration". I'm not some example of sainthood! It always somehow seems to disappoint people when I insist I'm in pain and don't intend to tolerate it. Yes, I take pain meds! If it makes the world feel any better, they don't totally erase the pain, just to let them know, I still suffer. Way beyond what a human being shuld endure! Its not in my head, and its nobody's business if I seek relief over "sainthood".
I never meant to imply there was anything admirable to suffering. I wouldn't have brought up this topic if that were so. That was her experience and what she was willing to accept. If it were me, I doubt I could handle her conditions and circumstances. Quality vs quantity of life means a lot to me. I'm not trying to push any agenda on this topic.
Thanks for clarifying.
I think this is a topic that should be discussed, and thanks to the internet, we have an avenue to do that. I personally hope that the US can shift its thinking on the topic and realize that humans who are living with severe, debilitating illnesses might, at some point, decide that they have had enough, and they deserve a peaceful, non-violent, and certain means to accomplish this. Of course, safeguards must be put in place so that the ability to do this is not abused. That is a given.
Perhaps someday we will realize that continually attempting to extend life at all costs is not necessarily the best choice. We have so much medical technology available now, I believe we have become conditioned to try to avoid death in ways that we (as humans) never did before so much medical care was available.
If you read the statistics from Oregon, you find that many more people have requested physician-assisted suicide than have actually used it. I would speculate that just knowing that they have the option available should they ever need it provides a form of mental comfort that helps them cope with the illness longer than they might otherwise.
I HATE the word "inspiration". I have severe rheumatoid arthritis, and I don't feel obligated to be anybody's "inspiration". I'm not some example of sainthood! It always somehow seems to disappoint people when I insist I'm in pain and don't intend to tolerate it. Yes, I take pain meds! If it makes the world feel any better, they don't totally erase the pain, just to let them know, I still suffer. Way beyond what a human being shuld endure! Its not in my head, and its nobody's business if I seek relief over "sainthood".
I would be the first in line to support your decision after experiencing my friend's suffering with this debilitating illness. Not just this condition, but any/all others that take away "quality" from life and leave them suffering daily.. strokes, cancer, ALS, and so many other diseases that aflict humans and take away their dignity and hope for any improvement in the future.
My problem is that our society is not ready to sit down and discuss euthanasia. It isn't a hot topic for any of our political candidates. So; how do we get people to come to their senses?
I still think that it has to start small. By that I mean that we start with those that our medical establish has no hope of saving. Doctors make those decisions everyday when they respect DNR orders. They also make that decision when they have patients that show no brain activity and they approach the family to remove the feeding tubes.
Perhaps we should all make living wills that specified that we would prefer to be euthanized - when there is no hope of living without external assistance or the quality of life that we demand? At least we would be prepared if they ever did legalize euthanasia. We could also cover ourselves with the DNR order; if euthanasia was still not legal. But, if enough of us did make the 'prefer to be euthanized' orders; it might get some media attention and get people talking about this subject?
My problem is that our society is not ready to sit down and discuss euthanasia. It isn't a hot topic for any of our political candidates. So; how do we get people to come to their senses?
I still think that it has to start small. By that I mean that we start with those that our medical establish has no hope of saving. Doctors make those decisions everyday when they respect DNR orders. They also make that decision when they have patients that show no brain activity and they approach the family to remove the feeding tubes.
Perhaps we should all make living wills that specified that we would prefer to be euthanized - when there is no hope of living without external assistance or the quality of life that we demand? At least we would be prepared if they ever did legalize euthanasia. We could also cover ourselves with the DNR order; if euthanasia was still not legal. But, if enough of us did make the 'prefer to be euthanized' orders; it might get some media attention and get people talking about this subject?
It's a good question to ponder. Obviously political candidates won't touch this topic, unfortunately. So how would the public start a grass roots demand for euthanasia? Do you start by having a lobbyist work on the AMA? Writing to your senators/congress people? The media sensation of Dr K helped a lot, but has fizzled out when no one took his place. How to revive the media angle? Online petitions? AARP? (useless even for Rp's.. too commercial)
Two major problems, as brought up by others earlier, is finding doctors (an anesthesiologist would be my preference) willing to go against their oath, willing to accomodate someone's legally written wishes (living will), and who can live with it without it ever bothering their conscience. I see that as the main obstacle despite so many patients asking/begging for their help.
A second problem is what/who designates when quality of life becomes futile? (as discussed in the depression and rheumatoid arthritis post). Should there be a list of "physical debilatating conditions" to adhere to? An age requirement? Like everything, there are always those "grey areas". Who determines how much suffering is too much for an individual? Some people, it appears, can handle more pain than others in similar conditions. The mental state of mind is always a big variable. The one suffering is the one that wants to be in control of that decision, but is it always right?
It's a good question to ponder. Obviously political candidates won't touch this topic, unfortunately. So how would the public start a grass roots demand for euthanasia? Do you start by having a lobbyist work on the AMA? Writing to your senators/congress people? The media sensation of Dr K helped a lot, but has fizzled out when no one took his place. How to revive the media angle? Online petitions? AARP? (useless even for Rp's.. too commercial)
Two major problems, as brought up by others earlier, is finding doctors (an anesthesiologist would be my preference) willing to go against their oath, willing to accomodate someone's legally written wishes (living will), and who can live with it without it ever bothering their conscience. I see that as the main obstacle despite so many patients asking/begging for their help.
A second problem is what/who designates when quality of life becomes futile? (as discussed in the depression and rheumatoid arthritis post). Should there be a list of "physical debilatating conditions" to adhere to? An age requirement? Like everything, there are always those "grey areas". Who determines how much suffering is too much for an individual? Some people, it appears, can handle more pain than others in similar conditions. The mental state of mind is always a big variable. The one suffering is the one that wants to be in control of that decision, but is it always right?
Still so many questions.
We could push to allow patients, that have previously requested euthanasia over slow starvation, the right to be euthanized. If we could just get the law to allow those, that our doctors come to the relatives and ask permission to remove the feeding tubes; to be euthanized – instead of lingering for days or weeks. At that point our doctors already gave up hope of saving that patient – they wrote them off for as good as dead.
This would be a start and then maybe more would see the light?
Situations such as cancer or incurable diseases which will result in pre-mature death in a short time period, in my opinion (1-3) then euthanasia should be legalized.
As said in my earlier post a few weeks ago,not everybody is religious, I'm catholic and I agree that not everybody should have to follow these laws that are somewhat based on relgion.
If a person who is sick decides they want to die, let them..
For instance, my neighbor was 94 when she developed cancer, obviously, she wasn't going to put her body through the stress of chemo when she could live longer with untreated cancer, if she decided after she had gotten weak that she wanted to die, we should let her.
Thankfully, the cancer was somehow prevented(don't exactly remember) and she just celebrated her 98th birthday.
Originally Posted by Maryjane55us
I said my generation. I didn't say any specifics or do I care to divulge into it. Further, I said I know many in my generation, I didn't say only my generation. But of that generation, 70 to 90, there are suicides weekly in a certain area. Some screw up the suicide and lay there for days unable to move. Others do it right and no one notices for a couple weeks. Why aren't they given the option? I'm guessing you are ok with people botching up suicide and laying there helpless, suffering, and it's ok?
The Swiss way of handling assisted suicide is absolutely amazing. Further, you're saying someone depressed for years and continually struggle with life doesn't deserve the choice to die? That they should just drudge through life? Some people just can't handle drama like others. Maybe enough suicides will open peoples eyes and realize something needs to change. I wonder how many group murders would be prevented by suicide as an option in the USA. Are we scared of mass exodus of youth throwing the human population in a down spiral? I'm confused here.
The 70+ age group, these are the ones I am adamantly in support of assisted suicide... including the woman I referred to, if it were her choice. But she doesn't choose it. I'm definitely NOT okay with botched suicides, from any age group, that was the whole point of my topic, that people should be allowed to choose their method/their time of dying when there's no hope left.
What I do question are the depressed ones "drudging" thru life. They may very well have a chance of making it thru their depression; like the 60yr old friend I wrote about who felt he had nothing left to live for after he lost his job. He has learned there's other things more valuable in life besides living to work.
I was a depressed 14yr old in the '60's who wanted to commit suicide. My mother was incensed when the doctor suggested a psychiatrist. I was forced to "drudge" on, suffer thru high school and lived to go thru another severe depressive episode in college. Hard years, lots of "drama" going on. But I eventually learned a lot by surviving through those hard times, and made it into my 60's. Lots of wonderful events/things I would have missed out on had I been given the choice to end it all.
Suicide in young people won't change anything in society. It won't "open people's eyes" to make anything change or make any difference at all. Our neighbor's 14yr old committed suicide 6 yrs ago. The mom remarried and the dad remarried. They've moved on. People go on living their lives and learn to re-adjust to the traumas in life.
Why is it so controversial to die?
It's actually not. It happens everyday. The living, they go on living, doing the same things they did yesterday. They send their condolences and eventually get back to living their own lives. Death is something we all go through at some point in our life; but life keeps going on and the dead are simply absent from it.
Quoting quotes, inside of quotes was messing up, so i had to post it like this. Thank you for expanding your thoughts. Why can't people select suicide when there is no hope? If you have no hope, why live? Some people don't want to wait for the maybes, they want absolutes. I suppose if one really didn't care enough to live, they would be homeless and stop eating. Though forcing oneself to stop eating is extremely painful.
Yep going there. There is a cartoon called futurama. Where the character Fry enters a phone booth looking box, to find out its a suicide box, both slow and quick options available. What about something like this? There is no assistance, only the choice from that person.
I find dying must be controversial because people still go through extremes when others die.
In other thoughts, suicide totals.
S.Korea = 31.2 total per 100,000 - 2010
Japan = 23.8 total per 100,000 - 2011
USA = 11.8 total per 100,000 - 2008
I would imagine the pressures of society is the biggest difference between the two. Do we call the ones that don't botch up suicide brave or just lucky?
Situations such as cancer or incurable diseases which will result in pre-mature death in a short time period, in my opinion (1-3) then euthanasia should be legalized.
As said in my earlier post a few weeks ago,not everybody is religious, I'm catholic and I agree that not everybody should have to follow these laws that are somewhat based on relgion.
If a person who is sick decides they want to die, let them..
For instance, my neighbor was 94 when she developed cancer, obviously, she wasn't going to put her body through the stress of chemo when she could live longer with untreated cancer, if she decided after she had gotten weak that she wanted to die, we should let her.
Thankfully, the cancer was somehow prevented(don't exactly remember) and she just celebrated her 98th birthday.
That would be an interesting story to hear the details on. It makes one seriously consider that cancer treatments can actually be worse than living out life with the actual cancer.
Depression itself is an incurable terminal illness. Allow "sane" people who wish to die the right to die painlessly. Same goes for people inflicted by severe ugliness / deformity. Many of these people genuinely do not want to live.
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