U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-19-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,266,007 times
Reputation: 3100

Advertisements

I don't know where I'd get the empirical data to back this up (since some other posters on here think that facts are all that's allowed in posting, no personal opinions or observations), but based on information I've seen in the media, I think there are more lawyers willing and able to jump at the opportunity to make a buck off defending a guilty person than doctors willing to pretend a patient is injured just to make a buck.

Please note that I didn't say it was one way and not the other; rather, that it is more prevalent in one profession than the other.

Anyone with statistics to prove or disprove my opinion, please feel free. But, I think it's a safe observation/opinion, and I stand by it.

Hence: Doctors are more respected than lawyers because fewer of them are willing to compromise their values (and the standard values of society) to make money for themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-19-2012, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,312 posts, read 1,536,257 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post
WHAT??? Criminal lawyers work to keep their clients out of prison, regardless of how many heinous crimes they may have committed. That's what they (you?) do. How can those lawyers sleep at night, knowing they tried (or succeeded) to keep a killer out of jail?

You can talk all about various sources to support your claims, but the fact is I could not look at myself in the mirror if I defended a rapist or murderer, especially for money.

Your other points have been addressed in previous posts.
Sometimes they do work to keep their clients from going to jail. But sometimes they know their client is guilty, and try to get a lesser sentence. That's their job.

Like I mentioned earlier, there's no outrage over doctors that treat, fix, heal murderers, arsonists, thieves, crooks, etc.

A lawyer, especially if they're a private not public attorney, working in a firm can deny taking a client on if they feel it would violate standards they may have.

Granted, there are some lawyers who are only in it for the money... and there are doctors like that too. That's the way it is in any job or profession.

Tell me, does anyone have the same positive feelings and emotions about the doctors who did these things?:

Cosmetic Surgery Insider: Top 10 Extreme Plastic Surgeries

Ten Biggest Plastic Surgery Addict Celebrities Including Celebrities Before And After Awful Plastic Surgery Pictures And Pictures Of Celebrity Surgeries Gone Wrong
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,312 posts, read 1,536,257 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathagos View Post
...Hence: Doctors are more respected than lawyers because fewer of them are willing to compromise their values (and the standard values of society) to make money for themselves.

A wife beater breaks his hand while beating his wife and the doctor treating that person knows this. Are you saying the doctor won't charge the wife beater for the services rendered?

I would assume that the doctor has standards that could include something along the lines of, "Beating women and children is wrong". But even with their own values being what they are, they still treat the patient and try to make their punching hand better again, and I assume they don't do it for free.

Is that doctor less respected in your eyes because his values were comprised and still took money?

Or should the doctor take any personal fees associated with that treatment and give it to a battered wives shelter? Would that be the only way the doctor could earn and keep your respect?


And how is that any different than an attorney forced, by law, to defend a suspected criminal in a court of law and try to obtain the best results for the person they are required to defend?

To me, a defense attorney who doesn't pursue the absolute best results for their client while defending them would be the equivalent of a doctor treating a gang member shot in a shootout with a bandaid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2012, 06:49 PM
 
3,844 posts, read 6,214,979 times
Reputation: 3882
As my lawyer told me years ago, "never trust a lawyer."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,312 posts, read 1,536,257 times
Reputation: 1486
Where are the people that think doctors are better than lawyers?

Why aren't those people defending doctors that fix rapists, arsonists, gang members, wife beaters, etc. when they have medical problems?

Aren't they as culpable as "lawyers" when they defend those same people in a court of law?

Doctor's still charge for fixing/healing/helping a rapist. But lawyers get the blame for defending them, and taking any fees, when the law says they have to?

Let's face it. In a republic, we have given people the right to a doctor AND a lawyer.

If you don't like criminals getting representation (and that representation gets compensation for their services) then do something about it.

Demand that the Hippocratic Oath is altered in America so that "criminals", illegals, system abusers, etc., are not given the full treatment that is currently available. And at the same time, demand that "criminals" are not given a right to counsel.

Until then, anyone who thinks a doctor is automatically better than a lawyer is hypocritical... or they have never needed a lawyer before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2012, 12:47 PM
 
Location: 10110001010110100
6,272 posts, read 10,383,699 times
Reputation: 5417
I favor the guys who mop the floor at "peep shows" over attorneys.
A doctor typically doesn't think about money when they are treating you, I doubt anyone goes into medical profession to get rich or make a lot of money. I just cannot say the same for attorneys.

Wonder why most everyone I know/spoke to feels lawyers and politicians are the scums of a civilized society?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,412 posts, read 65,045,280 times
Reputation: 69610
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexWest View Post
I think we're aware of the stereotypes involving the "life-saver" doctors, and "pond-scum" lawyers; and generally, it's assumed doctors are "better."

I'm not denying there are good doctors, as there certainly are many. I'm also not denying there are lawyers that are only after your money. But there are also good lawyers out there who actually do care about their clients and aren't necessarily striking it rich either, as well as doctors that take advantage of patients. You seek out services from lawyers. You go to them when you need them. They will not "make" you see them. Doctors make or expect you to see them (whether you need to, want to or not) with appointments, check-ups, etc. There are an abundance of clinics opening in America in recent years. Are they really for convenience, or are they taking for granted the declining health of Americans? Do we really need all these treatments, preventive measures, supplements, or are they underhanded ways of making money (by convincing us our doctors are trying to "help" us)?

As much as I love my doctor, and haven't needed a lawyer myself, my overall point is people generally make the doctor vs. lawyer divide far too black and white. Let's not pretend all doctors are really after our best interest, and that there aren't actually lawyers who really are after our best interest.

Thoughts?
OP, you've clearly not been in touch with people who are chronically ill, and can't get a doctor's attention or care. Nor do you appear to be in touch with impending changes in the health care delivery system known as "Obamacare". There already is a shortage of good doctors. In fact, in the American context, I'd have to say that "good doctor" is an oxymoron. Competent doctors are very rare, and usually are only available outside the insurance system. But eventually, as health insurance becomes available to more people, the MD shortage will increase. If more clinics are opening (I haven't noticed nor heard of this), that's a good thing. Currently the prognosis is that there will be a crisis in primary care availability, as fewer doctors are choosing that specialty, and are opting for more lucrative specialties, like surgery. And insurance companies have already been cutting back on the amt. of preventive care they'll cover, and have been flooding the media with articles about how annual check-ups are not needed (backed up by supposedly scientific studies), various preventive scans and tests aren't needed annually, or don't do much to catch disease in the early stages, etc.

As for lawyers, it always surprises me that people buy into this image of the predatory, money-grubbing lawyer. Many lawyers are doing humanitarian work at low pay, or taking cases on a pro-bono basis. Others complain that the system is broken, and the party with the most money will always win, because most people can't afford to pursue endless appeals. Both the medical and the legal system are broken. They're not serving the public effectively, to say the least.

Thoughts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2012, 10:47 AM
 
Location: The State Line
2,213 posts, read 3,035,706 times
Reputation: 2481
^I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm aware there are people who don't receive the medical attention they need/deserve. I was simply pointing out stereotypes that many people seem to have, and challenging them. There are certainly doctors that are in it for the money, and lawyers beyond what is stereotyped in criminal and personal injury law. There are even lawyers who don't collect attorney fees unless they win.

Perhaps my example of clinics opening is regional. While I'm aware hospitals have closed in NYC and other majors cities across the country, my area seems to be opening new clinics, if not expanding the existing ones. I should not have assumed this was occuring everywhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2012, 07:39 PM
 
261 posts, read 276,168 times
Reputation: 664
Not every defendant is actually guilty of what they've been charged with. Sometimes people are truly innocent. If you find yourself in that kind of situation - there's no one more valuable than a good defense attorney. They can literally be lifesaving.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2012, 06:53 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 30,495,011 times
Reputation: 28989
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurcoLoco View Post
I favor the guys who mop the floor at "peep shows" over attorneys.
A doctor typically doesn't think about money when they are treating you, I doubt anyone goes into medical profession to get rich or make a lot of money. I just cannot say the same for attorneys.

Wonder why most everyone I know/spoke to feels lawyers and politicians are the scums of a civilized society?
Well, I can only speak from personal experience and that of my wife. Between us, we have about 40 years worth of working within the political system of our former state and, in my case, federal issues as well. That was more than enough to convince us that politicians have their own interests in mind rather than those of the people they purport to represent. In this day-and-age of partisan politics, we find true integrity sadly lacking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top