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Old 10-30-2018, 10:31 AM
 
973 posts, read 473,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexWest View Post
I think we're aware of the stereotypes involving the "life-saver" doctors, and "pond-scum" lawyers; and generally, it's assumed doctors are "better."

I'm not denying there are good doctors, as there certainly are many. I'm also not denying there are lawyers that are only after your money. But there are also good lawyers out there who actually do care about their clients and aren't necessarily striking it rich either, as well as doctors that take advantage of patients. You seek out services from lawyers. You go to them when you need them. They will not "make" you see them. Doctors make or expect you to see them (whether you need to, want to or not) with appointments, check-ups, etc. There are an abundance of clinics opening in America in recent years. Are they really for convenience, or are they taking for granted the declining health of Americans? Do we really need all these treatments, preventive measures, supplements, or are they underhanded ways of making money (by convincing us our doctors are trying to "help" us)?

As much as I love my doctor, and haven't needed a lawyer myself, my overall point is people generally make the doctor vs. lawyer divide far too black and white. Let's not pretend all doctors are really after our best interest, and that there aren't actually lawyers who really are after our best interest.

Thoughts?

Lawyers have historically created a need for their services, and many become politicians; while physicians don't have to.
It's really that simple, physicians provide a much greater need; while lawyers create language only they understand to create a need.
Anyone with decent intellect and public speaking skills can practice law, but re-attaching a severed hand requires far more skill and training.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:06 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,412 posts, read 65,045,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Yes.

The practice of law is a lesser profession than the practice of medicine.

Lots of lawyers are fine people with brilliant minds, but in general law school is very easy to get into -- somewhere -- and not all that difficult to complete. We all know lawyers who are basically runts, so to speak. Not the case with medicine. Med school is almost impossible to get into -- anywhere -- and brutally difficult. And then the residency and internship, and perhaps a fellowship in a specialty.

Medicine is simply a higher profession, and most people hold doctors in higher regard than lawyers.
If it's so difficult, why are so many doctors asleep at the wheel? A lot of them seem like, once they got their degree, they can coast. They're not interested in helping their patients, many are too easily swayed by Pharma's marketing, and go with whatever new remedy Pharma pushes, rather than looking at the individual situation of the patient, and generally operate on auto-pilot. They make no effort to stay informed of basic new developments relevant to their practice. There are many deficiencies in doctor education and practice in this country, some of it relating to the insurance industry, but that's only a small part of the problem. My sense is, that doctors are losing the prestige they once had, because of these problems.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:12 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,412 posts, read 65,045,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
Lawyers have historically created a need for their services, and many become politicians; while physicians don't have to.
It's really that simple, physicians provide a much greater need; while lawyers create language only they understand to create a need.
Anyone with decent intellect and public speaking skills can practice law, but re-attaching a severed hand requires far more skill and training.
Not all fields in the law require public speaking ability; some practices are nearly entirely about paperwork. Not that that's a bad thing; it's a necessary function, when people need it. And while almost "anyone" can get a law degree, that doesn't mean they can have a successful career. Those who don't get top grades tend to end up struggling for job stability, with only intermittent employment. I've seen such people giving up on getting hired and retained long-term (or eve medium-term), and setting up their own practice, instead. And they tend to end up under-employed, when self-employed, because they're just not that good at what they do; they didn't master the material well enough in their degree program. You do have to be pretty sharp and on top of it, to have a viable career.

And not all lawyers are so-called ambulance-chasers, which I think is where the negative opinions of the profession originate, just saying. Let's not forget the people doing pro-bono work for the indigent, the people practicing civil rights law, internet law, human rights law, and other specialties in humanitarian directions. Anti-trust law, Erin Brokovich types, who help individuals and communities fight back against corporations, and so forth.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:08 PM
 
3,722 posts, read 3,060,340 times
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I'd think that most would agree on the fact of lawyers bringing more grief to the populace than doctors. Divorce, criminal cases, child custody, frivolous suits, property settlements, corporate labor relations, all that lawyering has to have some negative outcomes for a lot of people. Docs have a better "happiness" record among their clientele, but not in all cases.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:20 PM
 
3,722 posts, read 3,060,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
If it's so difficult, why are so many doctors asleep at the wheel? A lot of them seem like, once they got their degree, they can coast. They're not interested in helping their patients, many are too easily swayed by Pharma's marketing, and go with whatever new remedy Pharma pushes, rather than looking at the individual situation of the patient, and generally operate on auto-pilot. They make no effort to stay informed of basic new developments relevant to their practice. There are many deficiencies in doctor education and practice in this country, some of it relating to the insurance industry, but that's only a small part of the problem. My sense is, that doctors are losing the prestige they once had, because of these problems.
This could be another thread starter but yes, you are correct in assuming that more docs are now marketers for the pharma industry. My doc has constantly harped on me about blood pressure meds he says I need, but my BP is always a bit on the low side except when I see him, ergo, I think I need a new doc....
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,438 posts, read 1,259,409 times
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Doctors (Medical Doctors, MDs) have just always been the more prestigious profession. Among all cultures, many parents dream of their children growing up being a doctor. It’s the highest form of “making it to the top.” Doctors are also thought of as being smarter than lawyers. The stereotype of the straight A science nerd is the profile of someone who would go to medical school and become a doctor.

Many families view it as a success in the family tree to have the “first doctor in the family.” That is how highly esteemed being a doctor is to many. A lawyer doesn’t garner that type of emotional impact.

Law schools are a dime a dozen, and you usually don’t equate straight A students with law school/ being lawyers. Most average students could get into “a” law school (obviously not a good/ top tier one). Whereas, only the very best students can get into an MD medical school (even if it’s a lower tier one).

In general, it is more impressive to tell someone you are a doctor versus telling them you are a lawyer. It’s just holds a higher level of prestige due to perceived smarts and higher pinnacle career.

These are obviously broad brush stereotypes that don’t hold true for how everyone thinks, but in general, I think that this is how society views the two different professions. It’s also not to say anything about the individual doctor or lawyer. There are good and bad in all professions. In general the public holds a higher liking for doctors, likely given that it is a healing profession.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,882 posts, read 60,043,606 times
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Doctors are seen as adding value to life. Lawyers are seen as removing value from life, creating unnecessary conflict, focusing on game splaying over justice or equity. Lawyers role is to win no matter what. That is what they are hired to do. Some do so with no limits.

The most visible lawyers, the one more people come into contact with, tend to be the bottom feeders. Well qualified competent, professional, ethical lawyers are generally not interested in doing divorce, criminal defense, worker compensation, or petty jury or other "wrong" lawsuits for whiny people. Those areas of law are boring, rote, and low paying. The "good' lawyers y want to do the sophisticated challenging stuff where their skills and ability are put to use and tested daily; and where they get paid extremely well. Most (but not all) lawyers who go into the bottom feeder areas are lawyers who could not get work in the better areas of law. either they lack the skills, or they are too crass, unprofessional unethical etc. There are some exceptions of people who just want to help others, but the bottom feeder work is really super boring. Just the same thing over and over. Kind of like processing meat. Also they end up dealing with horrible unprofessional, incompetent, unethical people on the other side - constantly. It gets wearying.

As a result the lawyers most people typically come into contact with are the bottom feeder types. The worst of the worst. Premiere lawyers doing more sophisticated work generally do not have much contact with the general public. There are exceptions as noted but not enough, especially in the area where the most people have contact with a lawyer - divorce. Even at the better levels of legal practice, a lot of people are scummy. Some just because scummy people are everywhere. Some get scummy because of the pressures of maintaining profitability and the goal of winning at all costs. They are hired, not to achieve a fair result, but to win.

As a result, the majority of people who come into contact with lawyers come into contact with scummy lawyers.

Doctors are in a different world. Good doctors do not necessarily cost more than bad doctors. Bad doctors do not usually last very long. Most people have access to good doctors.
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:06 AM
 
8,414 posts, read 8,676,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Doctors are seen as adding value to life. Lawyers are seen as removing value from life, creating unnecessary conflict, focusing on game splaying over justice or equity. Lawyers role is to win no matter what. That is what they are hired to do. Some do so with no limits.

The most visible lawyers, the one more people come into contact with, tend to be the bottom feeders. Well qualified competent, professional, ethical lawyers are generally not interested in doing divorce, criminal defense, worker compensation, or petty jury or other "wrong" lawsuits for whiny people. Those areas of law are boring, rote, and low paying. The "good' lawyers y want to do the sophisticated challenging stuff where their skills and ability are put to use and tested daily; and where they get paid extremely well. Most (but not all) lawyers who go into the bottom feeder areas are lawyers who could not get work in the better areas of law. either they lack the skills, or they are too crass, unprofessional unethical etc. There are some exceptions of people who just want to help others, but the bottom feeder work is really super boring. Just the same thing over and over. Kind of like processing meat. Also they end up dealing with horrible unprofessional, incompetent, unethical people on the other side - constantly. It gets wearying.

As a result the lawyers most people typically come into contact with are the bottom feeder types. The worst of the worst. Premiere lawyers doing more sophisticated work generally do not have much contact with the general public. There are exceptions as noted but not enough, especially in the area where the most people have contact with a lawyer - divorce. Even at the better levels of legal practice, a lot of people are scummy. Some just because scummy people are everywhere. Some get scummy because of the pressures of maintaining profitability and the goal of winning at all costs. They are hired, not to achieve a fair result, but to win.

As a result, the majority of people who come into contact with lawyers come into contact with scummy lawyers.

Doctors are in a different world. Good doctors do not necessarily cost more than bad doctors. Bad doctors do not usually last very long. Most people have access to good doctors.
I get your point, but I think you need to be very careful.

Let me give an example. Let's say Smith is a lawyer in a small town. He graduated with average grades from a very average law school. He was a not a particularly gifted speaker. He did not have particularly good looks. He applied for jobs with a couple of dozen big law firms in big cities, but he was turned down. As a result. Smith went back to his hometown and he hung out a shingle. Smith rapidly learned there was a whole community of people who needed his services. There was the merchant n who needed advice on what form of business organization he wanted and how to set it up. There were several merchants who needed someone to handle their collections work for them. There were old people who needed estate planning advice and needed someone to set up a Trust or a Will for them. There was the banker who got constant queries from his depositors about where they could go to get legal advice or representation often about family law issues. There were a series of people who were bullied and mistreated by insurance companies when they tried to make a claim for benefits. There were employees of government and private business who were subjected to harassment and a hostile environment at work that no one wanted to do anything about. There were a series of people charged with petty crimes such as drunk driving who deserved some legal penalty, but were overcharged by the prosecutor who liked to appear "tough on crime" around Election Day. Smith gradually made a career out of representing those people. In time, Smith became a respected and well liked man. He was eventually elected to the state legislature and later became a judge. My last name is not Smith, but I have just described my father who died about ten years ago.

There are many "Smith's" in America. Most of them are tucked away in small communities and taken for granted by the people that they serve. They don't attract attention because they just do their jobs and doing your job isn't newsworthy. Yet, I submit that lawyers like Smith are vital to the very notion of democracy and representative government in America. They represent the bricklayers, the plumbers, the school teachers, the small business people, and main stream America. Mainstream is not represented by lawyers in large firms that charge $300 an hour for their services. These lawyers represent the elite in society and they are one reason we have such a lopsided distribution of income in our country. They do some very valuable things, but they do not look after ordinary citizens.

Yes, "bottomfeeders" exist in the legal profession, although its one of those words where everyone may have a slightly different definition. However, there are bottomfeeders in all occupations. There are accountants who aid people in tax evasion (not avoidance). There are crooked contractors who don't deliver the work they promised. There are all sorts of people in business who enter into contracts with no intention of honoring their obligations. There are alcoholic and drug addicted doctors whose mayhem is covered up by secrecy within their profession.

You cannot compare what lawyers do with doctors or probably any other occupation for that matter. I would suggest that the capitalist system sets the values for particular occupations through the wages that are paid. Lawyers don't come out too badly in that sort of ranking.
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Old 11-19-2018, 01:27 AM
 
4,990 posts, read 2,228,164 times
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What skill they are supposedly versed in can determine a person's bias opinion.

A lawyer versed in advocacy..or a lawyer in wrongful death ...hmm..
A doctor whos skill caused a death..

You decide based on how the results favored the client.

Had a fabulous lawyer in a wrongful death suit. The Doctor and hospitable also had a well versed lawyer.
No amount of settlement could right the loss...
My lawyer saw fit though to have evidence in hand.

I lost any respect for the doctor in this case . Flippant and arrogant.

Again..it's a bias experience. Of which some horrid truths about humanity were shed.
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,438 posts, read 1,259,409 times
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Doctors are valued more than lawyers in terms of pay. The lowest paid family medicine physician is still pulling in 6 figures, and all physicians are employed. The lowest paid lawyer that went to a 3rd tier law school could either be unemployed or making as low as $30K. It’s another reason there’s so much more prestige associated with being a doctor.

The average doctor is comfortably making around $200K, with surgeons, radiologists, dermatologists, etc making significantly more. Unless you are in big law as a lawyer (which is very difficult and not many), you won’t be making doctor money. It is another reason that contributes to parents’ dreams of their kids growing up to be doctors (as opposed to lawyers, who don’t have the same cache).
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