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Old 11-11-2012, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Florida/Oberbayern
587 posts, read 894,783 times
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So what would you do?
I've spent a significant amount of the last 10 years of my life in Prison.

You have to make a crust somehow and as a criminal Lawyer, you get to spend a lot of time in prison.

Prior to that I was a teacher in a prison. As a teacher you learn a lot.

I'm an average-sized guy with a pretty over-rated view of my own physical capabilities. Not that that mattered. In British Prisons, teachers are treated (by the inmates) as 'honoured guests'. No inmate would ever lay hands on a teacher.

The first time I went into a nonce's wing I was asked by one of my students: "Are you OK with teaching us?... after all, we're perverts and we're some sort of sub-human species."

Simple answer? - the one I gave him: "I'm not the judge. The judge sent you here. I'm the teacher. My employer sent me here. I can work with anybody.

Is that a problem?"

It wasn't. I was teacher and - much to my discomfort - I began to realise that they too were human beings.

That scared me.

Some years earlier a 'man in a white van' had tried to pick up my son and his friend. At that time I really was a 'large and impressive gentleman' and I and my lad's friend's father went out 'white van hunting'.

The local police 'suggested' we shouldn't bother ... but they weren't sending anybody out and if we 'got a result' the police wouldn't have been too bothered ... provided the man was at least alive.

If I ever see somebody assaulting a child (and am sure that what I am seeing is what is happening) then I will do my absolute best to dissassemble that person.

 
Old 11-11-2012, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,194,955 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel de Vol View Post
So what would you do?
What do you mean?

That's like asking, when you put out a house fire, what do you replace it with?
 
Old 11-11-2012, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Florida/Oberbayern
587 posts, read 894,783 times
Reputation: 436
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue.

Are you saying: "Anything goes? - we can't tell the people where the nonce lives because that would offend his (and it usually is a 'He' 'civil/human rights?

If you live in a really small society (and as a child I did) that works. Even small societies have nonces (and sometimes the nonces in small societies are fabulously wealthy.)

We had 1. Well, 2 (but one was fabulously wealthy so I shouldn't mention him.)

My Dad wouldn't let me near either of them (and I didn't understand why, I was a child.)

When I was 19, I was accosted by an homoxual (and it was illegal in the UK at that time) who [no doubt] intended to bugger me.

I'd arrived in London from the provinces (Hereford) late at night looking for a train to Thanet. No bloody chance!

18 years old I was (and homoxuality was punishable by a long sentence back then) blond hair, green eyed with a well-sculptured muscular young body.

He offered me a bed - I accepted.

He didn't offer me a bum boy partner and when he tried it on I told him I was going to 'unmantle' him. He didn't believe me so I dislocated one of his shoulders and offered to repeat the trick with the other and with both hips. I was, after all, a blond-haired green-eyed muscular youth.

Was I in the wrong? Should I have let him bugger me?

Was he a SEX OFFENDER?

If he'd managed to pick up a child who was not as physically powerful as I was (and I was a fit young adult) should he have been allowed to get away with that?

Three was no sex offenders register back then, I deemed him to be a 'grave threat' (he had, after all tried to bugger me) so I castrated him.

It was probably illegal.

As would've been buggery of an 18-year old boy.

Doing it my way saved the court money and me time.
 
Old 11-11-2012, 06:26 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,484,155 times
Reputation: 15430
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74 View Post
No benefits as far as YOU can see...
I have seen several benefits and so have other posters...
You most likely skimmed over my initial post and this is okay, I know with long threads such as these often times posters skim and want to get the gist and to meat of the thread...

So I will state it again, just for you...
I had an ex b/f in 8th grade and he had a very "cool" dad, he was in his 40's... his dad always encouraged his son to bring friends over and even bought beer for children ranging in 14-16 years old, really?
I could not stand going to my b/f's house, I thought his dad was a creeper and I trusted my instinct..
We broke up very soon after , we did not date long..
Well before our 8th grade year ended he ( His father) had gotten a friend of ours PREGNANT...
A 15 YEAR OLD GIRL!
They were going to move to a different state and her parents found out through one oif her friends and they contacted authorities and he was locked up..when the hearings were set a lot of other young girls came forward stating booze and pot was involved as to why they slept with him..
it was basically rape..these girls were all 13-16..sick..
Well I move back to California and settle in my owen home ( I was 30 at the time) I ran a search. after all my son was 5 at the time and we relocated to a different area of town.
Well I saw his ugly mug come up and I was mortified that he lived so close to me.
After this? I saw him doing his rounds by the HS everyday several times especially during lunch ( Some kids go to lunch at the park across from the hs) Why would he cruise by there? His kids were all over 18 and he had no grandchildren that age?
So I called the PD and gave them the info and they talked to him and reminded him that he could not be around schools period..I felt a little more at peace knowing I had done my part to keep this pervert away from other kids! As well as informed my neighbors about him so they would let their children know where to be and not be..
Well here's the thing, you knew who and exactly what he'd done, the list doesn't show that it only shows general info. You seemed to also make it your mission to find out what he currently was up to (you only had a 5 year old and you were monitoring a H.S. like the P.D.).

Most people looking at the list do not have intimate knowledge of the people they see on it, nor would most (or any) make it a mission and surveil a H.S. campus area to see what the person was up to.
Also, when you went and told all your neighbors, did you limit it to the ones with H.S. kids or did you tell all of them? I'm betting you went to every one of them that had kids no matter what age right?
There again, he's not interested in grade school ages so they got all worked up for no reason since S.O.'s tend to have a narrow range (according to you his was 13-15) that they don't deviate from.

Maybe you caught him doing something, maybe not. Maybe he'll just switch schools and you'll never know. What good will the list have done you then?
It's said over and over again, it's not the ones on the list you've got to worry about, it's the ones NOT on the list that are the biggest danger.
The list just tends to encourage complacent behavior if nobody on it lives near you.
 
Old 11-11-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,194,955 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel de Vol View Post
Are you saying: "Anything goes? - we can't tell the people where the nonce lives because that would offend his (and it usually is a 'He' 'civil/human rights?
That would be my preferred argument, yes, although the registry fails on even more basic grounds of public expediency. Rights don't even have to come into the picture.
 
Old 11-11-2012, 03:32 PM
 
419 posts, read 682,349 times
Reputation: 478
haha i remember doing a research project on this very topic 2+ years ago or so.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 06:49 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,484,155 times
Reputation: 15430
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminaljusticegrad View Post
haha i remember doing a research project on this very topic 2+ years ago or so.
And???? Don't leave us hanging... What did your research find????
 
Old 11-13-2012, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,194,955 times
Reputation: 4103
Here's some research:

Quote:
Recidivism Sex offender recidivism is lower than the re-offense rates for all other crimes except murder.


Sex Offender Recidivism in Connecticut, 2012 re-offense rate: 2.7%
"Low reoffending risk found for child porn users", The Age, 2012 re-offense rate: 7.5%
"A Model of Static and Dynamic Sex Offender Risk Assessment", Robert J. McGrath, Michael P. Lasher, Georgia F. Cumming, 2011 re-offense rate: 4.6%
"The Recidivism Rates of Female Sexual Offenders Are Low", Franca Cortoni, R. Karl Hanson and Marie-Ève Coache, 2010 re-offense rate: 3%
"Sexual Assault Trends and Sex Offender Recidivism in Maine", Maine Statistical Analysis Center, 2010 re-offense rate: 3.8%
"Evaluating the Effectiveness of Sex Offender Registration and Notification Policies for Reducing Sexual Violence against Women", Elizabeth J. Letourneau, Ph.D., Jill S. Levenson, Ph.D., Dipankar Bandyopadhyay, Ph.D., Debajyoti Sinha, Ph.D., Kevin S. Armstrong, 2010 re-offense rate: 4%
"Sex Offender Recidivism Analysis", Sam Caldwell, 2010 re-offense rate: 8.47%
"California DOC report looks at recidivism rates", Bernice Yeung, 2010 re-offense rate: 5%
"The Effects of Failure to Register on Sex Offender Recidivism", Minnesota Department of Corrections, 2010 "The results from the multivariate statistical analyses showed that a prior FTR conviction did not significantly increase the risk of sexual recidivism."
"The Impact of Prison-Based Treatment on Sex Offender Recidivism", Minnesota Department of Corrections, 2010 "Sex offender treatment provided within the DOC reduced the risk of rearrest for a new sex offense by 27 percent."

"Improving State Criminal History Records: Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released in 2001", Stan Orchowsky & Janice Iwama, 2009. re-offense rate: <5.3%
"Sex Offenders Released From Prison to Hennepin County [Minnesota]", Hennepin County Department of Community Corrections, 2009 re-offense rate: 9%
"Recidivism of Alaska Sex Offenders", Alaska Justice Forum, 2009 re-offense rate: 3%
"RECIDIVISM OF PAROLED SEX OFFENDERS—TEN (10) YEAR STUDY", California Sex Offender Management Board, 2008 re-offense rate: 3.38%
"Indiana Department of Correction Recidivism Rates Decrease for 3rd Consecutive Year", 2008 re-offense rate: 1.05%
"RECIDIVISM/REOFFENDING BY SEXUALLY ABUSIVE ADOLESCENTS", Rob L. Wetzel, Ph.D, 2008 re-offense rate: 7.75%
"Recidivism Rates Compared 2005-2007", Indiana Department of CORRECTION, 2007 re-offense rate: 5.7%
"Sex Offender Recidivism", Arizona Department of Corrections, 2007 re-offense rate: 5.5%
"Sex Offender Recidivism Report", Minnesota Department of Corrections, 2007 re-offense rate: 3%
"Criminal Recidivism in Alaska", Alaska Judicial Council, 2007 re-offense rate: 3%
"Sex Offender Populations, Recidivism and Actuarial Assessment", New York State Division of Probation and Correctional Alternatives, 2007 re-offense rate: 3.5%
"SEX OFFENDER SENTENCING IN WASHINGTON STATE: RECIDIVISM RATES", Washington Institute for Public Policy, 2005 re-offense rate: 2.7%
"Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994", US Dept of Justice, 2003 re-offense rate: 8.5%
"Ten-Year Recidivism Follow-Up Of 1989 Sex Offender Releases", State of Ohio, 2001 re-offense rate: 9%
"Recidivism of Sex Offenders", Center for Sex Offender Management, 2001



Residency restrictions, child safety zones, etc

"Efficiency of County-Level Sex Offender Residence Restrictions in New York", Kelly Socia PhD, 2011 "Residence restrictions were not associated with significantly reduced arrests for sex crimes committed either by RSOs or non-RSOs against child victims."

The Consequences of Residency Restrictions - Illustrated with maps

"Sex Offender Residence Restrictions", Jill Levensen PhD "Though laudable in their intent, there is little evidence that recently enacted sex offender policies achieve their stated goals of reducing recidivistic sexual violence."
"Sexual Offender Residence Restrictions", Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers, 2010 "Research also shows that housing instability increases both absconding and criminal recidivism."
"Off to Elba: The Legitimacy of Sex Offender Residence and Employment Restrictions", Joseph Lester, 2006 "Unencumbered without a home or a job, a convicted sex offender is more at risk to re-offend."
"The Impact of Sex Offender Residence Restrictions: 1,000 Feet From Danger or One Step From Absurd?", Jill S. Levenson & Leo P. Cotter, PhDs, 2005 "Other scholars have concurred that sex offender statutes inadvertently may increase risk by aggravating the stressors that can trigger some sex offenders to relapse."
"Sex Offenders' Residence Restrictions", Sandra Norman-Eady, Chief Attorney, 2007 "Proponents of residency restrictions argue the need to safeguard potential victims and opponents argue the need to track offenders. We have found no empirical studies on whether these laws reduce crime rates."
"Sex Offender Residency Restrictions", U.S. Department of Justice, 2008 "If unable to find legal housing, offenders may report false addresses, become homeless or go underground. Others may be forced to live in rural areas with less access to employment or mental health services."

"Sex Offender Residency Restrictions Impede Safety Goals", Jill Levensen PhD, 2012 "Laws restricting where sex offenders live or work will do little to prevent the most common circumstances in which children are sexually abused, through positions of authority and familiarity."
"Sex Offenders? Not in My Backyard", Elizabeth Weill-Greany, 2007 "When asked if the Council heard any testimony that these ordinances have cut down on sex abuse in other jurisdictions she answered, “Honestly, no.”

Impact of the Sex Offender Registry


"Overreach on sex offenders makes Americans’ lives living hell", Sadhbh Walshe, The Guardian, 2012 "The registry was intended to prevent other children from falling victim to a similar fate, a desire shared by everyone. But the laws have so drastically expanded what qualifies as a sex offense, there are now over 700,000 Americans on the registry, many of whom have never harmed a child and are unlikely to ever harm a child, rendering it a self-defeating tool."
"Sex Laws: Unjust and Ineffective", The Economist, 2012 "If there are thousands of offenders on the registry, it is harder to track the truly dangerous ones."

"Do Sex Offender Registration and Notification Laws Affect Criminal Behavior?", JJ Prescott & Jonah E. Rockoff "This finding is consistent with work by criminologists showing that notification may contribute to recidivism by imposing social and financial costs on registered sex offenders and, as a result, making non-criminal activity relatively less attractive.
"Sex Offender Registries: Fear Without Function?", Amanda Y. Agan, 2010 "The results from all three datasets do not support the hypothesis that sex offender registries are effective tools for increasing public safety."

"A Time-Series Analysis of New York State’s Sex Offender Registration and Notification Law", Jeffrey C. Sandler, Naomi J. Freeman, and Kelly M. Socia, 2008 "Thus, it appears that the enactment of SORA had little, if any, impact on rates of general offending in New York State and no significant impact on rates of sexual offending."
"Megan’s Law: Assessing the Practical and Monetary Efficacy", Kristen Zgoba, Ph.D, 2008 "Given the lack of demonstrated effect of Megan’s Law on sexual offenses, the growing costs may not be justifiable."

"No Easy Answers", Human Rights Watch, 2007 "Unfortunately, our research reveals that sex offender registration, community notification, and residency restriction laws are ill-considered, poorly crafted, and may cause more harm than good."

"How to Not Protect Kids from Sexual Assault", Mark Funkhouser, 2012 "The vast majority of the children who are assaulted are victims of someone in their immediate family or a coach, priest or someone else who has been brought into a position of trust. Creating a list of offenders is worthless in controlling assaults by such individuals. In fact, experts say the risk of stranger abuse is something like .0017 per 1,000 kids."
Fifty State Survey of Juvenile Sex Offender Registration Requirements



Internet sex crimes

"Low reoffending risk found for child porn users", The Age, 2012
"Viewing Child Porn Not A Risk Factor For Future Sex Offenses, Study Suggests", Science Daily, 2009 "Researchers writing in the open access journal BMC Psychiatry studied 231 men convicted of consuming child pornography in 2002 and found that only 1% had gone on to commit a hands-on sex offense in the following six years."

"Online “Predators” and Their Victims: Myths, Realities, and Implications for Prevention and Treatment", Janis Wolak, David Finkelhor, Kimberly J. Mitchell, Michele L. Ybarra, 2008 "we have yet to find cases of sex offenders stalking and abducting minors on the basis of information posted on social networking sites."



Victim and offender characteristics, relationships The majority of sex crimes are committed by first-time offenders who know their victims.

"Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement", US Department of Justice, 2000 "Just 3% of the offenders in the sexual assaults of children under age 6 were strangers, compared with 5% of the offenders of youth ages 6 through 12, and 10% of offenders of juveniles ages 12 through 17."

"Rape and Sexual Assault", US Department of Justice, 2000 "The closer the relationship between the female victim and the offender, the greater the likelihood that the police would not be told about the rape or sexual assault."

"You Might be a Sex Offender if...", Marshall Burns, PhD, 2009 "Nineteen-year-old Bill Elliott had sex with his girlfriend days before she turned 16, and he served four months in jail for it. Five years later, his and another man's names were pulled at random from the sex offender registry by a Canadian vigilante, who shot them to death in their homes before taking his own life."
Juveniles Who Commit Sex Offenses Against Minors (US Department of Justice, 2009) "Juveniles account for more than one third (36%) of those known to police who to have committed sex crimes against minors."

"Kids who commit sex crimes low risk to re-offend", Jonathan Athens, 2012 "Unlike adult offenders, children who commit these offenses do not understand the consequences of their actions on their victims."



Disconnect Between Public Perception and Facts

"Public Perception of Sexual Assault - A Comparison", Cody R. Sebben, Pabst Science Publishers, 2011 "This demonstrates that the perception of sexual offender recidivism in our raters does not correspond with real figures."

"Exploring Public Awareness and Attitudes about Sex Offender Management", Center for Sex Offender Management, 2011 "Media portrayals of sex crimes and the individuals who commit these offenses are not always grounded in current statistics, research, and accurate information which, in turn, can create perceptions, expectations, and demands for public policies that may not be well-informed and which may not result in the desired outcomes."



Civil Commitment The effectiveness of civil commitment was recently called into question when Minnesota released the first sex offender from their civil commitment program in over 20 years.

"With provisional discharge, Minnesota sex offender program reaches milestone", Twin Cities Pioneer Press, 2/26/2011

"Civil Commitment Without Psychosis: The Law's Reliance on the Weakest Links in Psycho-diagnosis", Thomas K. Zander PhD, Psy. D, 2005 "Should the definition of what constitutes a mental disorder vacillate depending on the ever‐changing whims of legislators, employers, or judgmental neighbors?"




Children as Sex Offenders?! In almost every state, children are charged as adult sex offenders depending on their age and the crime committed. In Texas, offenders as young as 10 are listed on the public registry.


Juveniles Who Commit Sex Offenses Against Minors (US Department of Justice, 2009) "Juveniles account for more than one third (36%) of those known to police who to have committed sex crimes against minors."

"Kids who commit sex crimes low risk to re-offend", Jonathan Athens, 2012 "Unlike adult offenders, children who commit these offenses do not understand the consequences of their actions on their victims."

Fifty State Survey of Juvenile Sex Offender Registration Requirements

"RECIDIVISM/REOFFENDING BY SEXUALLY ABUSIVE ADOLESCENTS", Rob L. Wetzel, Ph.D, 2008

6-Year-Old charged with sexual harrassment in Denver, CO "Zero-tolerance policies don’t work, and in many circumstances create legal consequences that are in fact inappropriate to the student."
6-year-old charged with sexual assault in Hercules, CA "The parent, who asked only to be identified as Oswin, said his son was accused of brushing his best friend’s leg or groin while the two were playing on the playground at Lupine Hills Elementary in Hercules two months ago. Oswin said his child was kept in the principal’s office for two hours until he confessed. He was suspended, and a sexual battery charge was placed on his permanent school record."
"Juveniles Wait Years to Get Past Sex Crimes," Houston Chronicle "Texas does not have a minimum age for juvenile registration, but the minimum age for prosecution is 10."



Financial Implications of the Registry and Related Legislation The registry has cost our country billions of dollars over the years, and has little to nothing to show for it.


"Megan’s Law: Assessing the Practical and Monetary Efficacy", Kristen Zgoba, Ph.D, 2008 "Given the lack of demonstrated effect of Megan’s Law on sexual offenses, the growing costs may not be justifiable."
What will it cost states to comply with the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act?, Justice Policy Institute, 2008 "JPI’s analysis finds that in all 50 states, the first-year costs of implementing SORNA outweigh the cost of losing 10 percent of the state’s Byrne Grant. Most of the resources available to states would be devoted to the administrative maintenance of the registry and notification, rather than targeting known serious offenders. Registries and notification have not been proven to protect communities from sexual offenses, and may even distract from more effective approaches."
http://www.endsexcrime.org/theproof.html
 
Old 11-13-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 12,509,221 times
Reputation: 3540
The prof,

The Minnesota Sex Offender Program (MSOP) was created in 1993 to allow for the institutionalization of sex offenders after they have finished serving their prison sentences, but before they are released back into society. After nearly 20 years, the program has yet to rehabilitate and release a single offender. Twenty-six patients have died in the treatment facilities at Moose Lake and St. Peter, but none have returned to being contributing members of society.

The catalyst for the rampant expansion of the MSOP came in 2003 when Dru Sjodin was abducted, raped and brutally murdered by a Level III sex offender recently released from prison after serving 23 years. The abduction crossed state lines, so the case was tried in federal court and attracted an extensive amount of national media attention. The incident prompted the creation of the Dru Sjodin National Sex Offender Public Registry. Since the trial, the number of sex offenders enrolled in the MSOP has tripled.

the sex offense recidivism rates for the 970 offenders
released into Hennepin County supervision. For these offenders, the average
follow-up is 8.1 years, the maximum follow-up is 17 years, and the minimum is three years.

After three years, ten percent of the offenders had been arrested for a new
sex offense, 5.5 percent were reconvicted, and three percent reincarcerated.
At the five year follow-up period, 13.5 percent had been arrested, eight
percent convicted, and five percent sent back to prison. At the end of the
follow-up period, nineteen percent had been arrested for a new sex offense,
twelve percent were convicted and ten percent were reincarcerated.
http://www.co.hennepin.mn.us/files/H...2009%20pdf.pdf
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,194,955 times
Reputation: 4103
Recidivism Studies - USA FAIR, Inc
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