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Old 11-02-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
1,417 posts, read 1,481,778 times
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Sex offenders like pedophiles cannot be cured. They have a sexual attraction to kids.
Just like hetrosexuals have an attractions to the opposite sex, and homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex. There is no cure for pedophiles. You can't tell someone who to be attracted to. Having said that, this is one of the major reasons I believe that pedophiles information on criminal history should be put out for those in the neighborhood to know. Parents and children need to be aware that he still has an attraction to kids. No matter whether he acts on that desire or not, the community should be aware.

Murders- That's different from pedophiles. Alot of murders are a result of jealousy,anger, heat of passion,fear of getting caught,etc.

They may be a danger to the community, but nothing on the magnitude of a pedophile.

Unless this murder is a serial killer,(which he'd be in jail) then I'd be more concerned about the local pedophile than the murder.

 
Old 11-02-2012, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,200,398 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris123678 View Post
Sex offenders like pedophiles cannot be cured. They have a sexual attraction to kids.
Just like heterosexuals have an attractions to the opposite sex, and homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex. There is no cure for pedophiles. You can't tell someone who to be attracted to.
As Kenneth Lanning noted in his groundbreaking "Child Molesters: A Behavioral Analysis" not every child molester is clinically diagnosable as a "pedophile." Many child molesters are (clinically) pedophiles and many pedophiles molest children, but the words are not interchangeable.
 
Old 11-02-2012, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,200,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEternalSanctuaryMan View Post
How about more info on your toe sucker? And child rape is an example of vicious rape. You would know that if you ever encountered someone who was molested in their youth and suffered the consequences of having it happen. I'll assume your some libertine throwback who believes children or unconsenting adults ought to be happy someone wants to get 'busy' with them since "it's all good" no matter the question of willingness or of the mental understanding required to partake in something such as sex.

Vicious rape also pertains to adults violently attacked or coerced into sex. That actually does happen to people who aren't just looking for pity, loot or TV time, you know those 'manufactured' victims meant to sell books and therapy/pills and regulations.

Do you advocate that there is no such thing as rape and so no such thing as a sex offender?
The toe-sucker is Trenton Veches, formerly of Newport Beach, California.

I have a degree in Criminal Justice, and the topic of my undergraduate thesis was Megan's Law, and in both that context and in my own life I've talked to victims, perpetrators, family members, etc., so I know a fair bit about the subject.

I've been called worse things in my time than a "libertine" so I won't spend too much time refuting that. But the answer to your last two questions is "no", with the qualification that I don't favor sex offender registration schemes.
 
Old 11-02-2012, 11:19 PM
 
1,846 posts, read 2,643,114 times
Reputation: 2489
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
The toe-sucker is Trenton Veches, formerly of Newport Beach, California.

I have a degree in Criminal Justice, and the topic of my undergraduate thesis was Megan's Law, and in both that context and in my own life I've talked to victims, perpetrators, family members, etc., so I know a fair bit about the subject.

I've been called worse things in my time than a "libertine" so I won't spend too much time refuting that. But the answer to your last two questions is "no", with the qualification that I don't favor sex offender registration schemes.
And why not?

Sex offender registration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 11-02-2012, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,200,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74 View Post
And why not?
They encourage vigilantism and disrespect for legal process. They simultaneously engender paranoia (about registrants) and false confidence (about everyone else.) They create a permanent class of second-class citizens (aggravated by residency laws, where those exist) which makes it nearly impossible for offenders to find places to live and work. They set neighbor against neighbor and family member against family member. They reinforce an unhealthy voyeuristic obsession with sex crimes that creates more sexual deviance. They punish many people for acts that were committed when they were too young to consent to sex themselves (i.e. the law presumes you cannot consent to be a sexual partner, but it will still label you a sexual predator.) They subject the registrants' families (often including victims) to humiliation, harassment and invasion of privacy. They are ex post facto law and the terms of registration can be changed as often as the state chooses.

And above all this, they don't do anything to reduce offense rates. Nothing.

Last edited by djacques; 11-02-2012 at 11:56 PM..
 
Old 11-03-2012, 12:02 AM
 
1,846 posts, read 2,643,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
They encourage vigilantism and disrespect for legal process. They simultaneously engender paranoia (about registrants) and false confidence (about everyone else.) They create a permanent class of second-class citizens (aggravated by residency laws, where those exist) which makes it nearly impossible for offenders to find places to live and work. They set neighbor against neighbor and family member against family member. They reinforce an unhealthy voyeuristic obsession with sex crimes that creates more sexual deviants. They punish many people for acts that were committed when they were too young to consent to sex themselves (i.e. the law presumes you cannot consent to be a sexual partner, but it will still label you a sexual predator.) They subject the registrants' families (often including victims) to humiliation, harassment and invasion of privacy.


And above all this, they don't do anything to reduce offense rates. Nothing.
You forgot to mention that being part of a registry ( Which is law after release) states the nature of the crime, the year convicted of the crime, how many offenses and so forth..

So to state that a perp peed behind some bushes and some kids caught him and reported it? It would be stated..
If a perp was charged with stat rape? It would state how old the perp was…being convicted at 18 and stating stat rape is left to interpretation
Rather than a 40 year old being convicted of this..

Second convictions of a lewd conduct with a child under the age of 12? That is self explanatory..

Can you argue?

Do nothing? I would not say this..It makes parent more aware of where their children are and exactly who resides in their neighborhood.

It also means that a perp cannot hang out with anyone they know at a crosswalk as children are going home everyday ( legally)
Means they cannot be in 1000 feet of any establishment that caters to children

If you mean it does nothing at all? Perhaps you are correct since some offenders forgo registering as sex offenders as they are required to, they reside at homeless shelters and so forth and have no set residency..

I have stated my previous experience and it has not been posted easily since one man was good friend of mine and my wish is that he be locked up fo life…due to the crime he committed..

So again I state what rights are being violated?
 
Old 11-03-2012, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,200,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74 View Post
You forgot to mention that being part of a registry ( Which is law after release) states the nature of the crime, the year convicted of the crime, how many offenses and so forth..

So to state that a perp peed behind some bushes and some kids caught him and reported it? It would be stated..
"Peed behind bushes" is not an offense category...it would be translated in legalese to something along the lines of "Gross sexual imposition, victim age 4-8" or "Aggravated indecent exposure", etc. etc....you get the idea.

Quote:
If a perp was charged with stat rape? It would state how old the perp was…being convicted at 18 and stating stat rape is left to interpretation
Rather than a 40 year old being convicted of this..

Second convictions of a lewd conduct with a child under the age of 12? That is self explanatory..

Can you argue?
Well, yes. In my state, a second conviction of penetration with a child under the age of 13, or second conviction of forcible rape of someone of any age, means you will go bye-bye until you're too old to get it up without a crane and a stepladder.

Quote:
Do nothing? I would not say this..It makes parent more aware of where their children are and exactly who resides in their neighborhood.
The most dangerous offenders are the ones in prison or who haven't been caught and sent to prison. The ones residing in the neighborhood and on the registry are the small fry.

Quote:
It also means that a perp cannot hang out with anyone they know at a crosswalk as children are going home everyday ( legally)
Means they cannot be in 1000 feet of any establishment that caters to children
Not in my state, and not in most. My state forbids registrants from working, residing or loitering within 1000 feet of a school; that is the only residency law, and it is disruptive enough. States with stricter residency laws like Florida, Georgia and Iowa (before they reformed their law) had colonies of sex offenders living in roadside motels, in campgrounds and under bridges, there being no other legal place for them...does that make you feel safer?

Quote:
So again I state what rights are being violated?
I don't need to appeal to a question of rights. Registration fails the simple test of public expediency; it causes a lot of problems in return for no proven benefits.
 
Old 11-03-2012, 12:41 AM
 
1,846 posts, read 2,643,114 times
Reputation: 2489
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
"Peed behind bushes" is not an offense category...it would be translated in legalese to something along the lines of "Gross sexual imposition, victim age 4-8" or "Aggravated indecent exposure", etc. etc....you get the idea.



Well, yes. In my state, a second conviction of penetration with a child under the age of 13, or second conviction of forcible rape of someone of any age, means you will go bye-bye until you're too old to get it up without a crane and a stepladder.



The most dangerous offenders are the ones in prison or who haven't been caught and sent to prison. The ones residing in the neighborhood and on the registry are the small fry.



Not in my state, and not in most. My state forbids registrants from working, residing or loitering within 1000 feet of a school; that is the only residency law, and it is disruptive enough. States with stricter residency laws like Florida, Georgia and Iowa (before they reformed their law) had colonies of sex offenders living in roadside motels, in campgrounds and under bridges, there being no other legal place for them...does that make you feel safer?



I don't need to appeal to a question of rights. Registration fails the simple test of public expediency; it causes a lot of problems in return for no proven benefits.
I see that we are at the crossroads..
You did not answer and agreed with some of my post...
Small fry? Not so sure...and I am most positive that i can dredge up examples but I already posted these on a previous post..They are not always small fry my friend..
AS far as vigilante justice? Well that suits the crime'
As far as making me feel safer? ACTUALLY it does not, since I know of a huge demo that would ft this demo making my point in the first place more valid..making your point valid..lol

The more visible of course we are speaking of the criminals that have actually been prosecuted and have actually adhered by the law and registered..the safer...I am not going to allow my son to go on "newbury lane" a few streets down and I know what the nofo looks like and can report him asap..

So what was your query as to what little good being open about this is? Do you have stats to back this up? If you do not? Please exit stage left..you know the drill
 
Old 11-03-2012, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,200,398 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74 View Post
So what was your query as to what little good being open about this is? Do you have stats to back this up?
Yup.

http://www.endsexcrime.org/theproof.html
 
Old 11-03-2012, 10:06 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,501,470 times
Reputation: 15431
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Yes, and I can see your point...however, we do have a huge breakdown of the justice sytem, that is for certain....you cannot believe how many times our officers re arrest people. It is a waste of time, a great waste of money and a disgrace to our society.

Our prisons are so full, they let murders go simply for that reason.....however, you have the case of the kid, who shot someone, they did time, and they are older and sorry for their crime and would never do it again....however, that to is few and far between....but there are cases in which they do rehabilitate.

Sex offenders do not....and you will have people come into this forum and state that they do...but very very very few cases can be rehabilitated. Not to mention, again, the pain any victim from any crime goes thru, possibly for the rest of their living days
When was the last time you were notified when a murderer had moved in? How about a repeat domestic abuser? How about a serial drunk driver (they could kill you or you're kids just standing on the sidewalk) or a repeat drug dealer?
All the above can do serious damage to people around them (not family or living in the house) basically collateral damage if you will.
Use some sense and try to see beyond the current fashionable paranoia. Most victims become such either by a family member (close or extended) close family friend etc. After being arrested and jailed the incident of repeat is not all that high. Take Sandusky as an example, he was a repeat offender but never caught until now. From what I've read the odds of him repeating if he were let out after a couple of years would be nil, especially when you take into consideration of mandatory parole/probation and counseling and in many states polygraph testing.
Show any and I mean any recognized stats that this publicizing does anything other than make some people "feel" better?
In my (and many others) estimation it actually could make things worse since many people will think "oh, that person's not on any list so they must be ok". WRONG. They could've never been caught, decided to abscond and hide since it's proven that this publicizing makes living anywhere almost impossible AND if the person does repeat the motivation is there instead of just molesting and letting the person go it's more beneficial to silence them permanently.
So you've now gone from having someone who "could" get over what happened to someone who'll never breath again.
You've got to look past the vengeance and see the big picture.
By the way, to be real clear, I'm not against the severe sentencing enhancements for repeat offenders but this scarlet letter thing does nobody any good except the people making money off of it.
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