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Old 12-31-2012, 03:08 PM
 
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The US constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. America in 21 century is very different from the rural and sparsely populated colonies of the 18th century. Here is my thought after reading justice Scalia's latest book:

Can we compile today a constitution that will last for centuries? A binding document telling people how to manage their societies, how to live their lives and how to behave? Any honest person will answer negatively to such challenge in my opinion.
Our constitution is indeed a great document that stood the test of time. However, we live in circumstances that could not be predicted by anyone in 1787. It is possible that in 23 century, people will be even further away from our reality then we are from the 18th.
I don't understand people who view the constitution as final and definitive, rather then a living, ever changing document.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:20 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
The US constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787.
America in 21 century is very different from the rural and sparsely populated colonies of the 18th century. Here is my thought after reading...
Try reading the Constitution itself.
In particular... look for Article V
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Try reading the Constitution itself.
In particular... look for Article V
I know it can be altered. Technically it can. But you know the current political arguments and the way it is interpreted by many in this country. Practically, I don't see anything altered today. Therefore, I question the way we view it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:07 PM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,761 posts, read 5,432,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
I know it can be altered. Technically it can. But you know the current political arguments and the way it is interpreted by many in this country. Practically, I don't see anything altered today. Therefore, I question the way we view it.
The Constitution has been amended (not " altered") as recently as 1992 and there is no reason to believe that it won't be amended again. It sounds like you are looking for an easy way to run roughshod over people who disagree with you on some issues.

Twenty-seventh Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:13 PM
 
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I am really tired of this debate.

The Constitution is not the Ten Commandments (as if it hasn't bee up for re-interpretation since it was written). It is a political document strewn with lack of definitional clarity that even for those involved with it crafting came to vastly different interpretations of its meaning (see Hamilton vs Madison and Jefferson and the beginning of partisan politics circa 1792 with the formation of the Democratic and Federalist Parties).
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:23 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,884 posts, read 13,030,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
The US constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. America in 21 century is very different from the rural and sparsely populated colonies of the 18th century. Here is my thought after reading justice Scalia's latest book:

Can we compile today a constitution that will last for centuries? A binding document telling people how to manage their societies, how to live their lives and how to behave? Any honest person will answer negatively to such challenge in my opinion.
Our constitution is indeed a great document that stood the test of time. However, we live in circumstances that could not be predicted by anyone in 1787. It is possible that in 23 century, people will be even further away from our reality then we are from the 18th.
I don't understand people who view the constitution as final and definitive, rather then a living, ever changing document.


it is a living changing document depending on which party is in power.

when the democrats are in power, it is a living changing document when the 2nd amendment comes up, and it is not a living changing document when the republicans are in power and talking about changing the 1st, 5th and 14th amendments.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
it is a living changing document depending on which party is in power.

when the democrats are in power, it is a living changing document when the 2nd amendment comes up, and it is not a living changing document when the republicans are in power and talking about changing the 1st, 5th and 14th amendments.
Were any of these amendments ever changed? Is there a real possibility for change today in practice, not theory?
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Were any of these amendments ever changed? Is there a real possibility for change today in practice, not theory?
Only if a large majority of the citizens of this country want it changed. That is the whole point.

Do you want to go to a system where it is changed frequently, but where the direction of change depends on who is in power? Can you explain why that would be better? What is it in the Constitution specifically would you like to see changed? And how would it be better if it that change were made, only to be reversed four or six years later? What specific process for the approval of changes would you put in place? Are you leaving this to the courts, the executive, lower thresholds for legislative approval? What are you proposing?

Let's have something specific to discuss instead of this vague, "I don't like it" stuff.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:18 AM
 
882 posts, read 1,780,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Can we compile today a constitution that will last for centuries?
Certainly. The "constitution" or any similar statement is a set of managing principles, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote:
A binding document telling people how to manage their societies, how to live their lives and how to behave?
Would fail the following generation. Fortunatly, the only time the US Constitution was amended to do such (regulate specific behavior) the result was such a spectacular failure that (until history is forgotten) it won't be repeated.
Quote:
Any honest person will answer negatively to such challenge in my opinion. .
Incorrect. An "honest" person will realize that you're attempting to conflate two unallied comments in an attempt to generate some (as of yet) unclear proposal.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:44 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,974,103 times
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Originally Posted by Jayess1 View Post
Certainly. The "constitution" or any similar statement is a set of managing principles, nothing more, nothing less.
Would fail the following generation. Fortunatly, the only time the US Constitution was amended to do such (regulate specific behavior) the result was such a spectacular failure that (until history is forgotten) it won't be repeated.

Incorrect. An "honest" person will realize that you're attempting to conflate two unallied comments in an attempt to generate some (as of yet) unclear proposal.
As I said, my OP came after reading Scalia's book and after realizing his fossilized approach has tons of followers. I try to explain that what he preaches, goes against the very nature of life and society. I also noticed that you preferred not to answer clearly if we can generate a document that will bind future generations. My next question is why we let the 1787 constitution be exactly that.
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