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Are there any previous threads here that debate the issue of vaccines at all?
This week my doctor asked me if I wanted to get my flu shot, and my Tetanus, Diptheria, Pertussis shot. I politely declined because I've read enough about the adverse side effects of vaccines to convince me to let my immune system build its own immunity. Plus, my sister, a nurse, told me there's a specific blood test you can get which shows if you're immunity to a vaccine has worn off, or is still good.
One of the ingredients in vaccines that scares me is Thimerosal. It's a neoplastigen and teratogen compound that is dangerous to the environment, and poisonous if inhaled or swallowed. Why on earth would vaccine manufacturers put that in a vaccine? As if the aluminum, Formaldehyde, and latex aren't bad enough.
Besides, I think it's crazy for the manufacturers to throw 3 diseases together in one vaccine. Has it always been that way?
I would never get more than one shot at a time, that's all I know. Each shot challenges your immune system to make antibodies and one challenge is enough. One at a time. I only get a tetanus shot if I've stepped on a rusty nail. As for whooping cough? I know I had the shot when I was a baby but that's all and same with diptheria. I didn't know adults even got those shots.
My aunt died from Diptheria. She didn't get a vaccination.
A child I grew up with spent most of her life in leg calipers. - At least she didn't spend it in an iron lung. She contracted Polio and didn't get a vaccine.
I've seen cemeteries full of people who died from Yellow Fever. They didn't get a vaccination.
When I was a child, smallpox was fairly common in some parts of the world. Many people died and of those who survived, many were disfigured. Smallpox didn't just 'get bored and go away' it was eradicated by a thorough and well-planned vaccination program.
To Konraden: Yes, isn't it incredible how some people can just ignore what scientists know and accept the paranoid rantings they find here and there on the internet? Just today I read an estimate that 35% of adults in the U.S. have had their flu shots. How irrational can people be? Do they enjoy being sick?
I would never get more than one shot at a time, that's all I know. Each shot challenges your immune system to make antibodies and one challenge is enough. One at a time. I only get a tetanus shot if I've stepped on a rusty nail. As for whooping cough? I know I had the shot when I was a baby but that's all and same with diptheria. I didn't know adults even got those shots.
Hi in_newengland. I agree with you. I think it's too much to put three diseases in one shot. That seems like it would overload the body's immune system to have to produce antibodies for all three diseases at once.
I think I will get that antibody titer blood test done. Supposedly it is a blood test that measures the levels of antibodies your body has made for each disease its developed immunity to. Will be interesting to see if I even need a tetanus (which I probably don't, in reality even though my 10 year timeline expired two years ago).
There's a lot of interesting websites and organizations that exist to help people advocate for themselves when it comes to vaccinations. A lot of propaganda exists from the CDC and pharmaceutical manufacturers of vaccines too, that tout them as safe when there are just as many lawsuits from people who developed adverse side effects or actually got a live virus in their vaccine that gave them the disease.
Are there any previous threads here that debate the issue of vaccines at all?
This week my doctor asked me if I wanted to get my flu shot, and my Tetanus, Diptheria, Pertussis shot. I politely declined because I've read enough about the adverse side effects of vaccines to convince me to let my immune system build its own immunity. Plus, my sister, a nurse, told me there's a specific blood test you can get which shows if you're immunity to a vaccine has worn off, or is still good.
One of the ingredients in vaccines that scares me is Thimerosal. It's a neoplastigen and teratogen compound that is dangerous to the environment, and poisonous if inhaled or swallowed. Why on earth would vaccine manufacturers put that in a vaccine? As if the aluminum, Formaldehyde, and latex aren't bad enough.
Besides, I think it's crazy for the manufacturers to throw 3 diseases together in one vaccine. Has it always been that way?
I have the same take on vaccines as I do with food. I wish there was an organic vaccine but there isn't. I agree with your fears on certain ingredients like Thimerosal, anti freeze, neosporin, formaldehyde, even dead animal embryo's, things that we can't or wouldn't normally ingest. One dose maybe but toxins build up over time and I'd rather have the flu than cancer or Alzheimer's, etc. Sure, both can kill you but I'd prefer the flu, it's quick and a bit kinder. lol
There's little link between them because there are little studies done. That's not a good enough answer for me. It's very hard to link chemical damage. It takes a long time to study a very controlled group. It's rarely done. We all remember DDT, it was once viewed as a life safer until it was deemed a life taker. Take a look at each individual chemicals warnings. That's a good start. Look at quantity studies, etc. You have to be your own advocate.
But, I do agree that vaccines are effective in some degree at stopping diseases. Sort of how eating a steak full of hormones and antibiotics are effective as food, in the short term yes, you are feed. But, I do think more regulation needs to be done on both. I would feel more comfortable if more long term studies were done on the effects of shooting chemicals into our bodies. I buy organic food, I clean with chemical free products. I have that choice. But I've yet to have that choice with vaccines.
So, I compromise. One vaccine against say polio, or measles, including the booster. Yes, worth it personally. A life time of yearly injections to avoid a flu by 60%, when it's in the shot that year? No, not in my comfort zone. IMO, of course. This is really a personal choice one has to make for themselves. I personally need more studies to be comfortable with that. I got my children the regular childhood vaccines but not the chicken pox or the flu vaccine.
Yes, the flu kills people every year but so do chemicals we've allowed into our food and medicines. It's a toss up. At least if the flu kills me everyone is aware of why I died. I like that better. Not to mention the recalls of flu vaccines because of contamination. They just recalled another big batch. At least they are doing recalls now. Some people get those contaminated ones before they're caught. Who knows what we really know or not. It's tricky. The more we use them the more answers we'll get I guess. I'll wait.
Are there any previous threads here that debate the issue of vaccines at all?
This week my doctor asked me if I wanted to get my flu shot, and my Tetanus, Diptheria, Pertussis shot. I politely declined because I've read enough about the adverse side effects of vaccines to convince me to let my immune system build its own immunity. Plus, my sister, a nurse, told me there's a specific blood test you can get which shows if you're immunity to a vaccine has worn off, or is still good.
One of the ingredients in vaccines that scares me is Thimerosal. It's a neoplastigen and teratogen compound that is dangerous to the environment, and poisonous if inhaled or swallowed. Why on earth would vaccine manufacturers put that in a vaccine? As if the aluminum, Formaldehyde, and latex aren't bad enough.
Besides, I think it's crazy for the manufacturers to throw 3 diseases together in one vaccine. Has it always been that way?
It makes my heart break to hear of people who fear to give their children vaccines. Obviously, they take for granted their children's life expectancy due to the vast majority of children who have been vaccinated; without these miraculous gifts from our Heavenly Father, so many countless more mothers and fathers hearts would be adrift in such vast grief and anguish.
How easily we forget that those vaccines which most people have their children given, they are to protect people from diseases which a good amount of children have died from. Nowadays, it is rather more of a shock to hear of a child's death from illness; before vaccines began to be used, it was not uncommon of an event at all. One family who I am researching right now, three of their nine children died from illness (one other one died as well and though I do not know the cause, it is likely that he died from sickness as well). While your children will probably be spared this fate even if they do not get vaccinated, you must remember that the chances of them (and you) not having to suffer in this way is because most people do get vaccinated, and therefore the ones who do not are indirectly being protected by what is called "herd immunity".
I pray you will change your mind about this truly wonderful invention. I do not know any specifics of the dangers that you speak of regarding them. It just chills my heart to think that perhaps one day a good majority of people will refuse to give their children vaccines, and then it may go back to the days when it wasn't uncommon for deaths in the family to be the children instead of the elderly; especially when such a thing can be so easily prevented.
Hi in_newengland. I agree with you. I think it's too much to put three diseases in one shot. That seems like it would overload the body's immune system to have to produce antibodies for all three diseases at once.
I think I will get that antibody titer blood test done. Supposedly it is a blood test that measures the levels of antibodies your body has made for each disease its developed immunity to. Will be interesting to see if I even need a tetanus (which I probably don't, in reality even though my 10 year timeline expired two years ago).
There's a lot of interesting websites and organizations that exist to help people advocate for themselves when it comes to vaccinations. A lot of propaganda exists from the CDC and pharmaceutical manufacturers of vaccines too, that tout them as safe when there are just as many lawsuits from people who developed adverse side effects or actually got a live virus in their vaccine that gave them the disease.
I wish there were not as many threads on CDF about vaccination as there are. The level of ignorance that abounds about vaccines is extreme. There are always a few people who are ready to "pop off" without citing any reputable evidence to support their position. I find that these threads rather than educate, simply give a handful of people with little knowledge a forum to propagate dangerous and unsubstantiated opinions.
Vaccines are the greatest health success of the last 100 years.
For starters, the issue of giving multiple vaccines to infants and adults has been studied. There is not evidence that suggests that this overwhelms the body's immune system. If there were such evidence, changing vaccine schedules would be comparatively easy. There'd be no reason no to do it.
Second, the comment about "all the lawsuits from adverse side effects to vaccine" also portray great ignorance. The USA has established a Vaccine Compensation Fund (or VCF) to pay claims to a relatively small number of people who experience side effects from vaccines. When we consider the fact that millions of doses of vaccine are given every year, it should be no surprise that there are a few hundred cases of side effects that result. Taking a vaccine is safer than driving a car. When we consider cases of food poisoning, its safer than eating. The most common side effect from taking vaccines are allergic reactions or anaphylaxis. Its this claim which results in the greatest number of claims. If you don't experience a very rare allergic reaction to a vaccine than the chances of some other side effect is negligible. Seven scientific studies have proven there is no link between vaccine and autism. Even so, some people will try to suggest that this huge level of proof is insufficient for them. It makes me wonder what level of proof would ever be sufficient.
Third, I wonder what on earth would make people ignore competent bodies who speak to issues of vaccine safety such as the Food and Drug Administration and the Center for Disease Control while instead listening to quacks, herbalists, and naturopaths tell them vaccines are unsafe? It tells me much about a person that they would rely on such sources for scientific opinion. I would not have a high opinion of their thought processes
Fourth, others here have commented on the preservative Thimersol and its alleged presence in vaccines. The argument is that mercury is poisonous and taking any vaccine preserved with trace amounts of Thimersol is somehow more dangerous than the disease the vaccine is taken to avoid. I cite an article here from the FDA which includes a table. If you look at the table, you'll see that virtually no vaccine contains Thimersol any more. Its been removed from the vast majority. There never was any indication that it caused problems. Its just been removed because of all the fear and hysteria that exist over these issues. You get far more mercury in your system simply by eating a can of tuna fish.
The worst part of it is that all this hysteria induces people to not get vaccinations for themselves or their children. On the average, about 30,000 people a year die of flu. We are seeing a reemergence of whooping cough among children because so many people are refusing to vaccinate their kids for for protussis now with a TDAP shot. Rejecting science in favor of unsubstantiated dogma that suggests these diseases can be prevented by eating organic foods or taking vitamins is irresponsible when applied to one's self. When applied to innocent children, its virtually intolerable.
I wish there were not as many threads on CDF about vaccination as there are. The level of ignorance that abounds about vaccines is extreme. There are always a few people who are ready to "pop off" without citing any reputable evidence to support their position. I find that these threads rather than educate, simply give a handful of people with little knowledge a forum to propagate dangerous and unsubstantiated opinions.
Vaccines are the greatest health success of the last 100 years.
For starters, the issue of giving multiple vaccines to infants and adults has been studied. There is not evidence that suggests that this overwhelms the body's immune system. If there were such evidence, changing vaccine schedules would be comparatively easy. There'd be no reason no to do it.
Second, the comment about "all the lawsuits from adverse side effects to vaccine" also portray great ignorance. The USA has established a Vaccine Compensation Fund (or VCF) to pay claims to a relatively small number of people who experience side effects from vaccines. When we consider the fact that millions of doses of vaccine are given every year, it should be no surprise that there are a few hundred cases of side effects that result. Taking a vaccine is safer than driving a car. When we consider cases of food poisoning, its safer than eating. The most common side effect from taking vaccines are allergic reactions or anaphylaxis. Its this claim which results in the greatest number of claims. If you don't experience a very rare allergic reaction to a vaccine than the chances of some other side effect is negligible. Seven scientific studies have proven there is no link between vaccine and autism. Even so, some people will try to suggest that this huge level of proof is insufficient for them. It makes me wonder what level of proof would ever be sufficient.
Third, I wonder what on earth would make people ignore competent bodies who speak to issues of vaccine safety such as the Food and Drug Administration and the Center for Disease Control while instead listening to quacks, herbalists, and naturopaths tell them vaccines are unsafe? It tells me much about a person that they would rely on such sources for scientific opinion. I would not have a high opinion of their thought processes
Fourth, others here have commented on the preservative Thimersol and its alleged presence in vaccines. The argument is that mercury is poisonous and taking any vaccine preserved with trace amounts of Thimersol is somehow more dangerous than the disease the vaccine is taken to avoid. I cite an article here from the FDA which includes a table. If you look at the table, you'll see that virtually no vaccine contains Thimersol any more. Its been removed from the vast majority. There never was any indication that it caused problems. Its just been removed because of all the fear and hysteria that exist over these issues. You get far more mercury in your system simply by eating a can of tuna fish.
The worst part of it is that all this hysteria induces people to not get vaccinations for themselves or their children. On the average, about 30,000 people a year die of flu. We are seeing a reemergence of whooping cough among children because so many people are refusing to vaccinate their kids for for protussis now with a TDAP shot. Rejecting science in favor of unsubstantiated dogma that suggests these diseases can be prevented by eating organic foods or taking vitamins is irresponsible when applied to one's self. When applied to innocent children, its virtually intolerable.
It would be nice if people could stop the hysteria on either side of this debate, I agree. Both sides are devoted without realizing there is a middle ground. Science follows the path of proof. Sometimes we find something we've developed doesn't do what we thought it would, so we change it. It's ok to do this, it's in line with science.
Recently we've found the flu vaccine isn't as effective as once thought. So, we're changing it, or developing something new. That's ok. Science isn't God like. That's why I like it. Science also studies effects of chemicals and toxins and has saved lives removing them by unveiling their effects on us. Same science you love, really. While I find childhood vaccines to be pretty necessary I don't find the flu vaccine that way. Plenty of scientist agree and are suggesting the nasal spray may be more effective, we will see. No need to hype this out of proportion.
Whopping cough is making a come back because vaccines that once were thought to have a life time effect are now questioned to only having a 10 year effect. You need another one it seems. Glad we have science. Also, a new whopping cough vaccine has been made with fewer side effects, and better vaccine. This is because over time science can see what works, what doesn't, what's more effective with less side effects and apply it. But, not yet sure if it's as effective, won't be for years, we'll see.
It's ok to take a logical approach to vaccinating. Like I said, childhood vaccines are different than the yearly flu vaccine, which is still in process of being evaluated. Science doesn't take sides, it's not emotional. That would be people using science to prove or site an unproved point.
If the scientific community is still "out" on the effectiveness of the flu vaccine then you can't use it to prove anything. It's a work in progress. Getting a flu shot and thinking your immune could cause harm, you may not be. Best to still use other safety precautions. There are also other alternatives, get the nasal spray. Less chemicals. More effective. So far as we know. That could change, we'll see. It becomes a personal decision on weighing out the effectiveness when you're dealing with a vaccine that is still in question, still being developed and studied.
The best prevention with flu is washing your hands, staying healthy in general ,and avoiding crowded places during flu season. Schools and employers could change their absent policies, if they did, it would prevent some spreading of the flu, maybe even more than the shot. It would be nice if a shot would work wonders and we could all be free of illness, but, it can't, at least not for the flu, and not yet. We have awhile to go in that area.
Hype on either side isn't needed though, I agree. It does nothing to change the facts of the matter. The facts of the flu vaccine are that it's far from perfection and is still being worked on. New studies are being done and things are changing. Mass production of it are leading to more recalled batches, which of course would be the case, it's the case with any mass product.
Me, personally, I'd wait. It's not effective enough yet to me, needs more work. I take my health seriously and avoid unnecessary toxins and get vaccines if I think the science backs their effectiveness and safety. If I deem them necessary, like I did with childhood vaccines then I get them. If I don't, like the yearly flu vaccine, I don't. I use other precautions which have proven to be just as effective when it comes to the flu.
The flu is a different beast altogether.
The two are the same concerns though. A lot of VOC's are proven to make people ill. It makes sense to be aware of them, weigh out the risks. Is it worth the damage cleaning my counters with bleach instead of vinegar? Nope, childhood vaccines, yep. Flu vaccine, nope. etc. etc.
Vaccines are probably man's greatest advance in medicine.
Everything has a risk associated with it.
Your risk of not vaccinating is probably higher than any adverse effect of vaccinating.
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IMO, of course. This is really a personal choice one has to make for themselves. I personally need more studies to be comfortable with that. I got my children the regular childhood vaccines but not the chicken pox or the flu vaccine. 