U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-16-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,195 posts, read 14,086,044 times
Reputation: 10085

Advertisements

So I was standing in a line to get lunch and as Pres. Obama was speaking on gun control, CNN had this quote along the bottom of the screen.

"We are responsible for each other."


Do you believe this as a representative statement for America?

I do not.

I believe America is built on individualism - not in a selfish greedy sense - but in a responsible sense. You handle your own affairs. You don't burden others with your issues under normal circumstances. You are responsible for your own protection, health, finances, education, etc.


This idea that we are responsible for each other is very destructive towards freedom. It means I am responsible for my neighbors that steal and do drugs. When someone is shot stealing from the bank, I pay the health care and I pay for the jail time. When someone overdoses on drugs, I pay the hospital bill. If a company has a bad business plan and fails - I must bail them out. Who should have to have a bad life because on bad choices they made? Not anyone in this country according to some.


If you want a country based on every person responsible for others - then freedom must disappear. Nobody will pay extra taxes on their own. No one will pay for the health care of someone else voluntarily. If someone breaks into your house and that person ends up in jail, what person would voluntarily pays for their stay in jail? Who wants to bail out people who have a bad business plan and go bankrupt? Therefore, rules are put in place so that people who manage themselves well, will have to subsidize people who do not manage themselves well. So the freedom to spend our money as we wish is slowly eroding. But also, there are behavioral rules that will be put in place so that we will not burden others. What we eat, what we drive, how we light our house, how we cool and heat our house, what we drink, what we shoot, how we discipline our kids - these are things that should be left up to individuals and families to decide for themselves. But if we change America to the idea that everyone is their brother's keeper, all freedoms will be subject to the greater good of society as the political elites see it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-16-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,019 posts, read 15,229,299 times
Reputation: 11767
I do believe it is representative. From the First Thanksgiving to communal "barn building" and the like, I believe that sharing and caring for each other is one of the things that has made this country great.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,195 posts, read 14,086,044 times
Reputation: 10085
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
I do believe it is representative. From the First Thanksgiving to communal "barn building" and the like, I believe that sharing and caring for each other is one of the things that has made this country great.
I'm not saying that we should have an attitude of "who cares about anyone else."

We just need to take care on own affairs first - then we should help others. Sort of like what you hear on airplanes - put your own oxygen mask first, then you help someone else.

So I agree with what you are saying - it just needs to be done as a secondary endeavor, not a primary objective.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,355 posts, read 6,783,711 times
Reputation: 14407
The claim that "we are responsible for each other" is usually nothing more that a flimsy excuse for the indolent, led by the unscrupulous, to escape personal responsibility.

As Ms TigerLily put it: "
We just need to take care on own affairs first - then we should help others. Sort of like what you hear on airplanes - put your own oxygen mask first, then you help someone else."

But the current focus of far too much of the current political polarization is the attempt by both major parties to impose their agenda on the opposition; and in the process, the rule of law and precedent is being jettisoned via the appointment of a string of mediocrities to the Federal judiciary,

Much as I would hope otherwise, things do not seem likely to improve if the shoe goes on the other foot.


Last edited by 2nd trick op; 01-16-2013 at 04:40 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 08:02 PM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,361 posts, read 11,871,000 times
Reputation: 15699
Yeah, that sounds like another stupid Obama quote. Right along the lines of "I am my brother's keeper" when in fact his brother is living in poverty in Kenya.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
400 posts, read 1,553,334 times
Reputation: 412
It's just more spin to distract from the issues like healthcare, the country's debt, blah, blah, blah.

I think it's a very ironic quote too, considering how this country was founded. Thanksgiving is such a hypocritical holiday.

America doesn't take care of its own. Ask the Veterans who fought for their country, students who borrowed financial aid who now can't include student loans in a bankruptcy if they become destitute, low income people with no healthcare will LOSE their healthcare under the new healthcare plan if they haven't already, the individuality that each state is allowed with regards to the way it handles taxes, healthcare, education, and employment shows a much more segregated country than unified one.

Don't believe everything you read, or see on TV, OP.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 11:00 PM
Status: "Amused by BF." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,253 posts, read 12,050,400 times
Reputation: 10627
I'm not an American, so I can't answer the OP's question - sorry.

The statement may or may not be representative of America - but it should be of the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 11:11 PM
 
4,803 posts, read 10,163,085 times
Reputation: 8245
I believe we should be responsible to each other, but in a voluntary way, not through the coercive power of the federal government. I disagree with Mr Obama's view of using the government to force people to do this. I fully realize I am in a decreasing minority of people who believe this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2013, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Florida/Oberbayern
587 posts, read 894,068 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
So I was standing in a line to get lunch and as Pres. Obama was speaking on gun control, CNN had this quote along the bottom of the screen.

"We are responsible for each other."


Do you believe this as a representative statement for America?

I do not.

...
It sounds to me like an attempt at a 'cute & catchy' (but meaningless) political throw-away phrase.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I'm not an American, so I can't answer the OP's question - sorry.

The statement may or may not be representative of America - but it should be of the world.
Wouldn't that make it even more meaningless?


If you were to start with the premise that 'people should help each other from the smallest units upwards' you might get somewhere. - Indeed, there are plenty of examples where that sort of attitude has been eminently successful.

Families which help other family members,
Streets in which some families help other families
Communities in which people work together. - 'Barn-raising and more'

If you start at the bottom, sort that out first and then expand it seems to work. There comes a point, however at which the idea fails, the 'goodwill' breaks down, some people start to abuse the help provided by others and people start asking: "What are we doing helping them? - Why can't they get up off their arses and help themselves?

If you start with "The whole world should be responsible individually and collectively for everybody in the whole world" You've no chance! Human beings just don't work that way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2013, 01:25 AM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,625,544 times
Reputation: 5781
News to me. I am not responsible for anyone else... yet. I will be when I have kids.

I'm not against helping out the community but I do have a limit as to how generous and caring I can be when there are a lot of weirdoes and manipulators out there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top