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I think anyone who has ever read some recounts or novels of wars in history, including the American civil war, can sympathize with preppers to a degree. Remember Scarlett O'Hara digging in the dirt despreately for a root vegetable just before swearing that she will never be hungry again? Yeah, she's fictional, but worse things happen in times of war and political unrest as well as natural disasters.
The issue for me is that the American prepper movement is basically a little too schizoid. If sh*t really does hit the fan, most individual households are not going to make it on their own long term, no matter how prepared they are.
I like the transition town movement: Transition Towns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. If anything will make things better during a major disaster, economic collapse, etc, it will be working cooperatively with your neighbors. But you need to prepare far ahead of time to be able to do that effectively. Stockpiling guns and gold won't really help you out there...
alot of people these days think that people who put back/store food are a bit nutty. but if you look at it, until after WWII, people normally kept food back in the USA or you did not eat much during bad times or the winter.
if you prefer to rely on uncle sugar or nothing at all if they are not available to feed you in a time of crisis, who am I to complain?
just dont go to others who did in fact prepare and expect a free handout.
I'd say it depends greatly on the prepper, the amount of money they have access to, and to what extent they are going.
Buying a 500,000 dollar bunker when you're a multi millionaire, not as crazy as someone who is making 80000 a year.
I have a friend breaking his bank account buying guns and ammunition, which I think is nuts, but to each his own.
I take the view that humans are at our best when we adapt and overcome. If the apocalypse happens, I think I'd be better prepared by adapting to the situation, instead of burrowing my head underground.
And at any rate, I'll live a much happier life if nothing does happen, then those who spend everything on prepping.
ahh yes, adapting to the situation.
dont you think it would be a bit easier to adapt to the situation if you and your family have a full belly of food, and dont have to worry about where to sleep or where your next meal is coming from?
Preppers are preparing for the end of the world as we know it. A complete breakdown of all economies and law and order. Not even a working political system. So are they being paranoid or is what they are preparing for a possibility? Perhaps the best answere is that nobody knows.
I feel that this topic has either gone astray or people have missed the premise of the thread. The topic starter has outlined the definition of “prepper.” It’s a person or persons preparing for a complete breakdown of law, order, and it’s everybody for themselves in a lawless land devoid of modern utilities.
We’re neither talking about somebody that keeps a week’s/month’s worth of water, food, and gasoline for their autos and generator because they lose power to summer/fall hurricanes and winter nor’easters nor are we addressing those that have moved to rural areas and begun gardening, canning, and are trying to become more self-reliant. We’re obviously talking about “doomsday preppers” that are planning on an end of society as we know it. It would be an event not too dissimilar to the collapse of the Roman Empire, which plunged Europe into The Dark Ages.
I have personally met and know people like this. I get occasional phone calls from people asking me about firearms, reloading, and casting their own bullets to how remote is it in the mountains behind my house, is there enough game to sustain their family, to do I know of any caves large enough to shelter X number of people, and general bushcrafting questions. Over the past three years, these phone calls and e-mails have increased in regularity. People asking such questions are obviously trying to prepare for the worst and society will have to start over again after an undefined period of time.
I think that anybody “prepping” for a complete collapse of our economy, society, and way of life that will see us living in medieval times by hording is rather naive if they think that X supply of food, and X storage of water stored in their city, suburban, rural home in a heavily populated area is a winning combination. They don’t seem to grasp just how dangerous such an environment will be. They cling to their families, pets, and homes they think will be defendable bastions. They seem to think that their firearm and amateur marksmanship skills will always prevail. They seem to think that a few months or years worth of water and food will mean they can live out the rest of their lives because they confuse hording with sustainable. They have a complete disregard for the obvious dangerous infrastructure all around them, cities, suburbs, distribution warehouses, roadways that will have countless passersby, backed up sewer, dams, dykes, levies, and nuclear power facilities all of which need constant care and just can’t be flicked off like a light. They disregard military installations and police going rouge as well as organized crime having more a free hand.
This country has roughly 310 million people. If everything broke down, within three days, the lion’s share of this country would not have potable water, food, and depending on the climate shelter would get most within a few hours. With those sobering facts considered, how does one honestly prepare for the inevitable competition of basic resources? Furthermore, this completely discounts any mayhem that will ensue, and I can assure you that if there is a breakdown, lawlessness will become the norm. Desperate people do desperate things, and Gerald Celente said it best, “When people lose everything and there’s nothing left to lose, people lose it.”
I don’t think paranoid is the right choice of words. Their collapse scenario is entirely plausible. Saying it can’t happen is as fool hardy as predicting when the crash will happen. It’s entirely possible that a few countries’ economic problems could trigger the rest of the banks worldwide to fall like a house of cards. Some people have called them delusional, and maybe they are. The fact here in the US is that we’re no longer a society where the lion’s share of us is into manufacturing, mining, and self-sufficient/sustainable organic farming. We’re a consumer-based society, and if we don’t consume we fail. It’s been this way for a few decades, and prepping is just another way for the powers that be to become wealthier. Since this “prepping craze” has hit mainstream, things I buy have gone through the roof. Just two examples, I often buy 100% wool military blankets. Just a few years ago, I could pick them up for about ten dollars. Now they go for fifty – seventy dollars, and the stocks of like new 50-year-old quality wool blankets has dried up. Now all that’s left are ragged out moth tattered examples. I bought some German made Jerry cans a few years ago. At the time, they were under twenty dollars. Today, they’re fifty bucks. It seems as though most of what I used to buy is considered “prepper supplies” and the price reflects the demand because doubled and tripled. In a consumer-based society, this is good for the wealthy elite that control how people shop, eat, and sleep.
Speaking of the wealthy elite, they are the only ones that can reasonably prepare for a “doomsday prepper scenario.” Should such a situation arise, the rest of us will have to wing it, and the doomsday preppers will find out that all their hording did them absolutely no good in the murder and mayhem that follows.
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 03-04-2013 at 04:51 PM..
Reason: No Rhodes scholar here
I feel that this topic has either gone astray or people have missed the premise of the thread. The topic starter has outlined the definition of “prepper.” It’s a person or persons preparing for a complete breakdown of law, order, and it’s everybody for themselves in a lawless land devoid of modern utilities.
We’re neither talking about somebody that keeps a week’s/month’s worth of water, food, and gasoline for their autos and generator because they lose power to summer/fall hurricanes and winter nor’easters nor are we addressing those that have moved to rural areas and begun gardening, canning, and are trying to become more self-reliant. We’re obviously talking about “doomsday preppers” that are planning on an end of society as we know it. It would be an event not too dissimilar to the collapse of the Roman Empire, which plunged Europe into The Dark Ages.
I have personally met and know people like this. I get occasional phone calls from people asking me about firearms, reloading, and casting their own bullets to how remote is it in the mountains behind my house, is there enough game to sustain their family, to do I know of any caves large enough to shelter X number of people, and general bushcrafting questions. Over the past three years, these phone calls and e-mails have increased in regularity. People asking such questions are obviously trying to prepare for the worst and society will have to start over again after an undefined period of time.
I think that anybody “prepping” for a complete collapse of our economy, society, and way of life that will see us living in medieval times by hording is rather naive if they think that X supply of food, and X storage of water stored in their city, suburban, rural home in a heavily populated area is a winning combination. They don’t seem to grasp just how dangerous such an environment will be. They cling to their families, pets, and homes they think will be defendable bastions. They seem to think that their firearm and amateur marksmanship skills will always prevail. They seem to think that a few months or years worth of water and food will mean they can live out the rest of their lives because they confuse hording with sustainable. They have a complete disregard for the obvious dangerous infrastructure all around them, cities, suburbs, distribution warehouses, roadways that will have countless passersby, backed up sewer, dams, dykes, levies, and nuclear power facilities all of which need constant care and just can’t be flicked off like a light. They disregard military installations and police going rouge as well as organized crime having more a free hand.
This country has roughly 310 million people. If everything broke down, within three days, the lion’s share of this country would not have potable water, food, and depending on the climate shelter would get most within a few hours. With those sobering facts considered, how does one honestly prepare for the inevitable competition of basic resources? Furthermore, this completely discounts any mayhem that will ensue, and I can assure you that if there is a breakdown, lawlessness will become the norm. Desperate people do desperate things, and Gerald Celente said it best, “When people lose everything and there’s nothing left to lose, people lose it.”
I don’t think paranoid is the right choice of words. Their collapse scenario is entirely plausible. Saying it can’t happen is as fool hardy as predicting when the crash will happen. It’s entirely possible that a few countries’ economic problems could trigger the rest of the banks worldwide to fall like a house of cards. Some people have called them delusional, and maybe they are. The fact here in the US is that we’re no longer a society where the lion’s share of us is into manufacturing, mining, and self-sufficient/sustainable organic farming. We’re a consumer-based society, and if we don’t consume we fail. It’s been this way for a few decades, and prepping is just another way for the powers that be to become wealthier. Since this “prepping craze” has hit mainstream, things I buy have gone through the roof. Just two examples, I often buy 100% wool military blankets. Just a few years ago, I could pick them up for about ten dollars. Now they go for fifty – seventy dollars, and the stocks of like new 50-year-old quality wool blankets has dried up. Now all that’s left are ragged out moth tattered examples. I bought some German made Jerry cans a few years ago. At the time, they were under twenty dollars. Today, they’re fifty bucks. It seems as though most of what I used to buy is considered “prepper supplies” and the price reflects the demand because doubled and tripled. In a consumer-based society, this is good for the wealthy elite that control how people shop, eat, and sleep.
Speaking of the wealthy elite, they are the only ones that can reasonably prepare for a “doomsday prepper scenario.” Should such a situation arise, the rest of us will have to wing it, and the doomsday preppers will find out that all their hording did them absolutely no good in the murder and mayhem that follows.
You don't really seem to understand where I'm coming from. It's not that I need to broaden my search it's that you need to know that I am not buying junk, I know what's real, what's a Chinese knock off, and I've been doing this for decades. First off, The Sportsman's Guide is a rip off. It's not The Sportsman's Guide of the 1970s - 1990s. I used to buy off of them regularly via catalog well before there was such a thing as the Internet.
The lion's share of what they now seel is trash. If it is the genuine article, be sure that it's either worn out or the size is listed as XL, but in fact it's actually a medium at best. Those blankets aren't nice, most likely not 100% wool, and they are still over priced at 35 dollars. Seven years ago, they were grab bag blankets 4 for 20 dollars. I've bought a few of those deals and the blankets aren't anywhere close to the real 100% wool high quality blankets that were so numerous pre-2008 doomsday prepper buying frenzy. Furthermore, the link for the jerry cans are in fact Chinese made junk. They are not German made, and pale in comparison. I've seen them, they leak right out of the box. I use my things. They don't just sit in a closet waiting for the economy to fail. I've been buying and using these things for decades, so it's not like I'm some Johnny come lately fool who's jumped on the doomsday prepper bandwagon.
Hence, my paragraph about the escalating cost of these items, how mainstream is now being catered to as their panic buying increases really hits home in light of the links you provided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat
As for everything else, well I would rather have something instead of nothing if the SHTF. I'll take my chances.
This is a real common attitude I hear among doomsday preppers. I was addressing doomsday preppers, economic collapse, no government, laws, and the like. With this same attitude, it would make sense to grab a five gallon bucket and start bailing after the Titanic's struck the iceberg because it's better than doing nothing. I am not suggesting an attitude of doing nothing. I'm just pointing out that people confuse guns, water, and food as some savior when the end of society comes. It's all pointless preparations when you find that you have to leave your home and you can only take what you can carry. In a doomsday scenario, the odds that your home will sustain you or won't be a danger to you are stacked against you.
This is a real common attitude I hear among doomsday preppers. I was addressing doomsday preppers, economic collapse, no government, laws, and the like. With this same attitude, it would make sense to grab a five gallon bucket and start bailing after the Titanic's struck the iceberg because it's better than doing nothing. I am not suggesting an attitude of doing nothing. I'm just pointing out that people confuse guns, water, and food as some savior when the end of society comes. It's all pointless preparations when you find that you have to leave your home and you can only take what you can carry. In a doomsday scenario, the odds that your home will sustain you or won't be a danger to you are stacked against you.
Well what if it's not "DOOMSDAY" but instead "REALLY CRAPPY DAY" and things manage to get better after a few months or a year. It all depends on what you are prepping for and what you believe will happen, if you use history as a guide you will see that there have been some very bad times for many people but humanity has always bounced back, hell the collapse of the Roman empire took hundreds of years and Italy and Rome are still there. The Argentinian economy collapsed and living there was no picnic but it's pulled itself out and is still there.
I personally am prepping for what i believe could happen based on world history not Mayan calenders or Nostradamus's.
If your not suggesting an attitude of doing nothing, then what do you suggest?
Just looking at the little world history I know of, during times of war throughout American history, hording was against the law. If you don’t share your stores with the neighbors, be sure that one of them will turn you in. If you share with your neighbors, it’s a certainty that others will discover that you have an abundance of supplies. Word will always get out. Here’s a nice prepper story circa 1918 when there were anti hording laws due to a war war.
Here’s more recent legislation, “In 1994, former President Bill Clinton released an executive order that lumped together a number of laws that could go into effect in the event of a declaration of martial law. One of the laws included in this order, number 10998, allows the federal government to seize hoarded food supplies from both public and private sources,” and how knows what FEMA, Homeland Security and a score of other Federal, State, and local legislations have on the books.
When the Roman Republic, which turned into the Roman Empire fell, it plunged the known world, at that time, into The Dark Ages, which lasted for centuries. To this day, there are Roman engineering feats that modern scientists do not understand how the Romans built such things given their technology. Their technical knowledge was lost and stayed lost.
The economic collapse of Argentina was largely isolated to that country, so I’m sure that there was outside collaboration with the Argentinean government to get them back on track. Since that time, the world’s economy has worsened, and many fear that the next problem could be global. One of the first things that I pondered was how Argentina compared to the US. Argentina has a significantly larger portion of its population living in poverty. I would think that having 30% plus at or below the poverty line means that a lot more of the population is used to hardship than here in the U.S. where dying from lack of shelter, water, and food is very rare.
I’ll be the first to admit that I could be wrong with my suppositions, but I personally feel that if the economy, social disorder, and collapse of society does occur, it will indeed be global. This is why I feel that comparing our current economic crisis with those of the past isn’t an accurate prediction of what it will be like for us because there won’t be anybody around to rescue or help us.
Several countries’ economies around the globe are in dire straights. Furthermore, all our economies seem to be tied together, so a domino effect is in place, and could happen. I’ve heard that the problems of the 1930s are largely in place again today, which could spell another global war just like it did back then. Who knows? It’s anybody’s guess, and I’m surely no expert on this.
The dangers I see around us are a population that’s much larger than any other time in American history. Our population’s nearly triple what it was when The Great Depression hit. During the Great Depression, we were an exporter of durable goods. We also lacked nearly all the expensive, heavily maintained, and technology dependent infrastructure we have today, and quite a bit of that infrastructure is dangerous when not maintained and run. Self-sufficient organic farms that didn’t rely on petrochemicals were the norm back then. There were a lot more farms and farming families in place. We relied a lot less on oil. Our meals didn’t travel halfway across the country to reach us, and this list just goes on and on. Prepping is either out of most people’s budgets, or their dwelling restricts them. With so many hundreds of millions of people unprepared, competition for shelter, water, and food will be legion.
That’s why I personally feel that prepping for such a catastrophic event is quite pointless. When I point out obvious problems to doomsday preppers, I simply cannot grasp their logic as they come up with one vague answer after the other, or they just disregard any pertinent danger I point out that will exist. Even if half our population dies within the first week, there are still 150+ million people, most of whom will not have adequate shelter, water, and food.
There’s always somebody in a remote area or some millionaire that’s got a private sailboat or aircraft that will whisk them away to their remote Pacific island, but for the lion’s share of us here in the States, doomsday prepping is pointless, and it’s simply another form of consumerism that many Americans have bought into.
As far as what I suggest, it’s do nothing because most preparations are pointless. How does one prepare for a doomsday scenario? This topic is extreme über prepping that’s out of most people’s budgets. My suggestions? If your budget permits, buy some island or a county in some remote location that’s farmable. If you can’t afford that, join a Mormon commune, or learn primitive caveman skills, get into as tip top physical and cardiovascular shape that’s appropriate for your age and health, and realize that you may have to abandon everything you hold dear at the drop of the hat up to and including your worldly possessions, pets, and some or all of your loved ones.
Prepping has really become a perverse word over the past decade. These survival, prepping, economic holocaust scenarios began popping up all over the net well before 2008, but since the bubble of 2008, they’ve seemed to have increase exponentially with each year. Jump on over to youtube and take a gander at all the “prepper” channels. It’s gone viral, and there are people making money by preying on people’s fears. It’s vogue to prep!
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 03-05-2013 at 01:03 AM..
Reason: I'm no Rhodes scholar
There are so many reasons for people to prep. War/socioeconomic is one reason, but for some, its also a back up in this economy incase someone loses their job. Just think about it, your husband or wife loses their job, but because you've prepped, you have 3,4,5, months of food that you can consume to ease the burden of the financial aspect in your house. We have just recently started prepping, but we also live in florida where hurricanes are a real threat. I know my parents prep pretty extensively but I dont find them paranoid. They also live in the midwest where tornados are a threat, so for them, that's THEIR back up for jobs, weather, or any war-type situation.
edit to add: While we live in hurricane area, we likely would not get the "flooding" aspect of it since we are further inland, however losing power would likely happen.
I think this bunker prepping is a bit much to be honest BUT do believe one should be prepared to survive without the creature comforts or readily available food,water,heat and shelter. One should be prepared to exit the house taking nothing but what you can feasibly carry and adapt/survive off what you can hunt/fish/dig up or take if needed.
Bunkers are great if you can actually get to it, if it hasn't been located by others or the powers that could be confiscating things at the time.
Worst case I'd fully expect to have to exit our house probably never to return and find someplace to be able to eat and sleep while figuring out what options now exist.
Total self reliance and the ability to adapt will be the thing that gives one the best chance of survival, being able to move at a moments notice and defend one's self when no other option is available, running and hiding as much as you can.
Just looking at the little world history I know of, during times of war throughout American history, hording was against the law. If you don’t share your stores with the neighbors, be sure that one of them will turn you in. If you share with your neighbors, it’s a certainty that others will discover that you have an abundance of supplies. Word will always get out. Here’s a nice prepper story circa 1918 when there were anti hording laws due to a war war.
Here’s more recent legislation, “In 1994, former President Bill Clinton released an executive order that lumped together a number of laws that could go into effect in the event of a declaration of martial law. One of the laws included in this order, number 10998, allows the federal government to seize hoarded food supplies from both public and private sources,” and how knows what FEMA, Homeland Security and a score of other Federal, State, and local legislations have on the books.
When the Roman Republic, which turned into the Roman Empire fell, it plunged the known world, at that time, into The Dark Ages, which lasted for centuries. To this day, there are Roman engineering feats that modern scientists do not understand how the Romans built such things given their technology. Their technical knowledge was lost and stayed lost.
The economic collapse of Argentina was largely isolated to that country, so I’m sure that there was outside collaboration with the Argentinean government to get them back on track. Since that time, the world’s economy has worsened, and many fear that the next problem could be global. One of the first things that I pondered was how Argentina compared to the US. Argentina has a significantly larger portion of its population living in poverty. I would think that having 30% plus at or below the poverty line means that a lot more of the population is used to hardship than here in the U.S. where dying from lack of shelter, water, and food is very rare.
I’ll be the first to admit that I could be wrong with my suppositions, but I personally feel that if the economy, social disorder, and collapse of society does occur, it will indeed be global. This is why I feel that comparing our current economic crisis with those of the past isn’t an accurate prediction of what it will be like for us because there won’t be anybody around to rescue or help us.
Several countries’ economies around the globe are in dire straights. Furthermore, all our economies seem to be tied together, so a domino effect is in place, and could happen. I’ve heard that the problems of the 1930s are largely in place again today, which could spell another global war just like it did back then. Who knows? It’s anybody’s guess, and I’m surely no expert on this.
The dangers I see around us are a population that’s much larger than any other time in American history. Our population’s nearly triple what it was when The Great Depression hit. During the Great Depression, we were an exporter of durable goods. We also lacked nearly all the expensive, heavily maintained, and technology dependent infrastructure we have today, and quite a bit of that infrastructure is dangerous when not maintained and run. Self-sufficient organic farms that didn’t rely on petrochemicals were the norm back then. There were a lot more farms and farming families in place. We relied a lot less on oil. Our meals didn’t travel halfway across the country to reach us, and this list just goes on and on. Prepping is either out of most people’s budgets, or their dwelling restricts them. With so many hundreds of millions of people unprepared, competition for shelter, water, and food will be legion.
That’s why I personally feel that prepping for such a catastrophic event is quite pointless. When I point out obvious problems to doomsday preppers, I simply cannot grasp their logic as they come up with one vague answer after the other, or they just disregard any pertinent danger I point out that will exist. Even if half our population dies within the first week, there are still 150+ million people, most of whom will not have adequate shelter, water, and food.
There’s always somebody in a remote area or some millionaire that’s got a private sailboat or aircraft that will whisk them away to their remote Pacific island, but for the lion’s share of us here in the States, doomsday prepping is pointless, and it’s simply another form of consumerism that many Americans have bought into.
As far as what I suggest, it’s do nothing because most preparations are pointless. How does one prepare for a doomsday scenario? This topic is extreme über prepping that’s out of most people’s budgets. My suggestions? If your budget permits, buy some island or a county in some remote location that’s farmable. If you can’t afford that, join a Mormon commune, or learn primitive caveman skills, get into as tip top physical and cardiovascular shape that’s appropriate for your age and health, and realize that you may have to abandon everything you hold dear at the drop of the hat up to and including your worldly possessions, pets, and some or all of your loved ones.
Prepping has really become a perverse word over the past decade. These survival, prepping, economic holocaust scenarios began popping up all over the net well before 2008, but since the bubble of 2008, they’ve seemed to have increase exponentially with each year. Jump on over to youtube and take a gander at all the “prepper” channels. It’s gone viral, and there are people making money by preying on people’s fears. It’s vogue to prep!
To each his own, For me I'll take the very,very slim chance (according to you) that the SHTF will not knock us back to living in caves and wielding clubs. I will prep for what I believe is possible, economic collapse, and or civil war, a limited breakdown of the rule of law etc.
Sorry but after reading your post I can't help but think that you've been watching to many movies.
we will just have to disagree.
bill
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