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Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
As more and more people are beginning to talk about this I think it is a good thing. I've even heard this pop up in conversation with people that have never expressed views about it. The time is coming for a break. The South will be free to pursue the theocracy most of them would love to live in.
If it does come to pass, which I believe will be sooner rather than later, I would feel bad for the few moderates and liberals left in the South. They will be living under a quite intolerable govt. But instead of it being frustrating and sad to watch their politics in action as a fellow countrymen with them, when we see their ludicrous politicians on tv we can just shake our heads like Canadians and wonder what the heck is going on down there.
I have the same sense, that it's time we have some open conversations about a lot of these basically ''cultural'' differences, that keep getting swept under the rug or else hidden behind names like ''politics'', ''rural vs urban'', ''red state vs blue state'', ''social conservatives'', ''rednecks'', ''city boys'', ''states rights'', ''elites'', ''culture wars'', etc.. In fact even the subject of ''race'' arguably comes down to ''northern vs southern'' cultural differences and attitudes.
But of course part of the challenge is trying to openly discuss it, when one side just keeps denying they even have a unique culture... yet at the same time keeps complaining how their ''culture'' is always being unfairly stereotyped!
I live in Nashville Tennessee (originally from Miami), and I work with this gay hispanic guy who's from California. We both agreed that people in this area (Nashville) were odd/different for some reason. I have a hard time making friends up here compared to Florida and I also find that people stick to their own way more up here in Tennessee.
On the surface everyone is a lot nicer here, but I sense a lot of talking behind peoples' back vibe up here. One day my gay co-worker came up to me and mentioned that the difference between Nashville and where he grew up was that in Cali people who hated gays would sometimes shout slurs like, "******" ect...to him. He said here in Nashville he feels as if he's being treated nice up front, but like people are secretly judging him.
I agree with him. It seems people up here in the mid-south are a lot more polite, but afraid to confront people straight on or say what they really feel about people. The south also has a slower pace regardless of the size of the city. People seem overly concerned about everyone else here which is great in some aspects such as a natural disaster where people extend thier hand to help each other, but terrible in other aspects such as driving in traffic sometimes. Sometimes people will brake hard in front of you while the light is green just because they want to let someone out from the side road which is dangerous.
Hi Rob - I sometimes see on the Nashville board. I've from Nashville, lived in Los Angeles for 18 years, back to Nashville for 2012, and in LA again for a while.
Folks are taught not to be rude. So, yes, they will sometimes be nice to your face even when they don't like you. I've dealt with is in work situations and honestly, though it could be strained, I prefer the politeness, the effort to get along on the surface, to outright hostility. There is actually a joke about the South and politeness - about how instead of a outright insult, people will say whatever it is in a nice way and add "bless their heart". So instead of saying someone is fat, they might say, "she sure is big boned, bless her heart".
I think one of the reasons it's hard to meet people sometimes is because the South is very family oriented. People marry fairly young and start having kids. When I was younger and single I had a hard time finding other women to hang out with because they all had to go home to their families. Only when I moved to LA did I make a lot of women friends who, even if they lived with a boyfriend, didn't have kids and actually had a life outside of their relationship.
As for drivers, yes there are challenges in Nashville - but come to Southern California - we have the trophy to bad traffic/drivers.
I not only read travel books - my husband and I travel a lot. This year - out of country will be another visit to Toronto (have a family wedding in Michigan) and Japan (second trip). I make the trip plans - and my husband learns as much of the languages as he can. In the last few years - he has worked on Japanese - German - brushed up on his French - and tried to learn some Hebrew for a family guest who visited us. BTW - Delta service out of Atlanta to places like Tokyo is really excellent these days. Robyn
This isn't a pi$$ing contest or a competition. It's an exchange of ideas. I do not live in Ponte Vedra Beach (God bless you) and I am single. I cannot afford all the things you do. Trips to Europe with frequent flyer miles accumulated on domestic travel are the way I roll.
ALL REGIONS of the U.S. have different societal norms, cultural "anthropologies," and styles. ALL OF THEM.
The South is different from the Northeast is different from New England is different from the lower Midwest is different from the upper Midwest is different from Texas is different from the Intermountain West is different from the Pacific SW and is different from the Pacific NW.
I always used to lump the Northeast and New England together. Not anymore! A personal style may work in one ... and not in another.
This isn't a pi$$ing contest or a competition. It's an exchange of ideas. I do not live in Ponte Vedra Beach (God bless you) and I am single. I cannot afford all the things you do. Trips to Europe with frequent flyer miles accumulated on domestic travel are the way I roll.
ALL REGIONS of the U.S. have different societal norms, cultural "anthropologies," and styles. ALL OF THEM.
The South is different from the Northeast is different from New England is different from the lower Midwest is different from the upper Midwest is different from Texas is different from the Intermountain West is different from the Pacific SW and is different from the Pacific NW.
I always used to lump the Northeast and New England together. Not anymore! A personal style may work in one ... and not in another.
Folks are taught not to be rude. So, yes, they will sometimes be nice to your face even when they don't like you. I've dealt with is in work situations and honestly, though it could be strained, I prefer the politeness, the effort to get along on the surface, to outright hostility. There is actually a joke about the South and politeness - about how instead of a outright insult, people will say whatever it is in a nice way and add "bless their heart". So instead of saying someone is fat, they might say, "she sure is big boned, bless her heart".
Few things bust my b*lls more than passive-aggression, and I've experienced a fair amount of it from some Southern transplants myself, but, on the other hand, I've also noticed it to be a fairly common behavior of upper-Midwesterners (Minnesotans in particular); thus, I have to think that it's definitely not a cultural trait that's owned by Southern societies to a necessarily more noteworthy extent.
Passive-aggression, though, is something that I imagine to be very characteristic of strongly conformist-oriented societies where politeness is held as such a prime virtue (what are you supposed to do when there's no room to just be an ***hole every once in a while?).
You are right. They don't see Lincoln the way we do. The ironic part is the flag waving that goes on in the US South of today is so very different from the past. When Lincoln was President they tore down Old Glory right in the streets of Charleston, SC and mobs gleefully stomped all over the US flag. Southerners didn't want anything to do with the USA then, now it is the hyperpatriotic region of the country. Strange indeed.
I came across a very interesting piece in the NY Times about the South:
It is about how the moderate white voters have been silenced down there. Personally I don't think many even exist at all.
But what I really enjoyed were the comments at the end of the article:
This comment was very telling:
I've noticed that many Southerners come on here to rail against "northern elites" who they allege "are discussing something they know nothing about", but what they are deliberately ignoring are the great number of posts here either by those of us who have spent extensive (read: years) time in the South, or, indeed by Southern born individuals who have lived most of their lives in the South. And we are arguing that yes, there is something fundamentally different, and cruel, about the South. You can discount our experience all you want, or dismiss it, but the fact is I went into the South with an open mind and heart and left having witnessed some of the worst sexism, racism, homophobia and ignorance I'd ever encountered.
And this comment sums up exactly what I was saying about going their own way:
The articles of the Constitution were drafted to create structure and strategies for a long enduring democratic form of government including limiting majority tyranny. That is our saving grace understanding that majorities rarely grant equal rights to minorities.
That said, the South, driven by often racially laced unity and homogeneity has continually stifled progress. The South of generations gone is a different culture. That the voting blocs there strive to maintain tradition based on social and cultural mores is prerogative. That the representatives of that prerogative should wield power to stall the functions of government is not. The remarkable instances of obstructionist filibustering are just one example of hostage taking.
However the pie is sliced, southern states receive a disproportionate share of federal funding. I don’t care that people vote against their economic interests weighed against their personal values. But I do care how this democracy works. I honestly think the time has arrived to explore the possibilities of some form of separation. The current stalemates are entirely too damaging to the well being of sound government.
I disagree with that. The South isn't this hyperpatriotic region of the country (I see way more references to the Confederacy than the country as a whole when it comes to the people). The South is very proud of themselves when it comes to not wanting to be associated with the rest of the country. The South loves to ignore everyone else hence why it is so different. Most of the disdain towards the South from others comes from the fact that it's like you guys are trying to be friends of the South and you get ignored. You can continue to act like you're an expert on the South but they really don't give two "fox" about you or your opinion. Unlike the rest of the country, which is swamped in political correctness.
I disagree with that. The South isn't this hyperpatriotic region of the country (I see way more references to the Confederacy than the country as a whole when it comes to the people). The South is very proud of themselves when it comes to not wanting to be associated with the rest of the country. The South loves to ignore everyone else hence why it is so different. Most of the disdain towards the South from others comes from the fact that it's like you guys are trying to be friends of the South and you get ignored. You can continue to act like you're an expert on the South but they really don't give two "fox" about you or your opinion. Unlike the rest of the country, which is swamped in political correctness.
I hear you. But I just wish they would get about the business of formalling breaking with the rest of the country. It is long past time they did. They are fundamentally different in every way.
As I said in a previous post, which not one southerner mentioned, is that we live in a "forced" union. They don't want to be part of the USA. There is no love lost between the Fed Govt and the South.
Why the heck do they stick around? Just go already. Never once have I ever heard from a single southerner one bit of praise for the Fed Govt or its achievements. Everything down there is all about the "sovereign state" blah blah. Please South, go for it, and leave us in peace once and for all.
Many of these people have a view of the South right out of "Gone with the Wind" or "Hurry Sundown". Basing views of an entire region on the interaction of one relative who lived in the South etc.
My Grandfather ( we called him Granddaddy) and his brother and sister went to the University of Florida, his brother and sister were both Electrical Engineers and he a Journalist/Photographer. They grew up in the woods of North Florida and many of the super-smart Northerners here would see where they lived and think they were uneducated,racist rednecks... Far from the truth. Their parents were 1920s "progressives" and lived in a commune in rural Louisiana and both of them were college educated.
There are plenty of kids in the Industrial North who were told that education was a waste and they needed to get to working in the factory or the mines.
Get beyond your prejudices and see people as individuals. These progressives/liberals see themselves as so open-minded and tolerant but can not get past their preconceived notions of the South
Do we base our view of NYC on Archie Bunker or think that all people from NJ are in the mafia? You could find examples of people very much like that.
1) Allegiance to social hierarchy- Everyone has a place, in rank order, and this place is what holds the community together. The rank can change depending on the context, but there always in one. That's why people who are older are called by titles like ma'am. Paradoxically, it's also why (White) Southerners were so hell bent against Civil Rights. They saw Blacks as the bottom of the social hierarchy.
2) (Anglo) Protestant Christianity- Leads to a sense of rebellious passion and guilt
3) Maintaining traditions- Desire to keep everything stable
4) Honor- Everyone has an image that they want to maintain. This is what led to duels.
Everything else is just window dressing.
Southern culture brought us great musical traditions as well as a military edge because so many Southern families have a tradition of fighting for country, which they consider honorable.
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