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Old 03-04-2013, 07:43 AM
 
281 posts, read 602,109 times
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The immigration debate is going to heat up this spring and one of the phrases that is going to be said over and over and over is that AMERICA IS A COUNTRY OF IMMIGRANTS, so we need to approve more legal immigration and give amnesty to illegal immigrants.

I have asked my friends if they are immigrants and they all said no, they are Americans. Most everyone I know is a fifth or sixth generation American and have never met their immigrant Great Great Great Grandparents.

One argument is that nearly everyone in the world is an immigrant if you want to stretch things like the advocates of immigration do. If you go back far enough pretty much everyone in the world has distant relatives who used to live somewhere else. Does that mean that massive immigration should be approved in countries all over the world because distant relatives from the past used to live somewhere else? What do you think?

Should I be more open to immigration because I had relatives come to America 150 years ago? Does that make me an immigrant?
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Toronto
1,551 posts, read 2,692,249 times
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Are you asking a question or making a statement? It's kind of hard to tell.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:16 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,919 posts, read 58,068,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tired Man View Post
Should I be more open to immigration because I had relatives come to America 150 years ago?
No. You should be more open to immigration because it can make good sense to do it.
The only issue is about HOW it gets done (hint: 150 years ago was different world).

150 years ago when the US had a surplus of low/no skilled jobs there wasn't much concern that immigrants be more than healthy and strong enough to do those jobs and that they have someone
other than the government to fall back on for material support.

Today however, we don't have that surplus of low/no skilled jobs.
Nor do we have much shortage of people able to do any of the jobs that actually need doing.

We DO however, have a shortage in a few key, specialized, and high skilled areas.
Immigration policy should be focused on solving this problem.

As to the problem of criminal border crossing... that isn't immigration.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:21 AM
 
281 posts, read 602,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Are you asking a question or making a statement? It's kind of hard to tell.
QUESTION: Should America be more open to immigrants because sometime in the past, maybe 150 years ago, we had a relative immigrate to America?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:25 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,234,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tired Man View Post
One argument is that nearly everyone in the world is an immigrant if you want to stretch things like the advocates of immigration do. If you go back far enough pretty much everyone in the world has distant relatives who used to live somewhere else. Does that mean that massive immigration should be approved in countries all over the world because distant relatives from the past used to live somewhere else? What do you think?

Should I be more open to immigration because I had relatives come to America 150 years ago? Does that make me an immigrant?
i always found this topic amusing, "we're all immigrants".

my ancestors were not immigrants. You could call them colonists, or revolutionaries, or even conquerers, but they were not immigrants.

that said, i support increased legal immigration of skilled workers into the U.S., as long as they are free to switch employers, that is, not on a guest program. So to answer your question, no, I don't think anyone's personal history ought to play any role into their modern views on immigration. I think it is sort of arrogant to use your ancestry as a justification for keeping anyone out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
We DO however, have a shortage in a few key, specialized, and high skilled areas.
Immigration policy should be focused on solving this problem.
Arguably... we do have the people with appropriate skills, we just have employers who would like to use U.S. immigration policy to keep wages as low as possible.

At the very least we shouldn't be taking a company's word for it. Their goal is, at least in part, to eliminate bargaining power among their workers. Bringing in guest workers when the domestic talent really is available serves this purpose for them.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: NW Philly Burbs
2,431 posts, read 4,399,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tired Man View Post
I have asked my friends if they are immigrants and they all said no, they are Americans. Most everyone I know is a fifth or sixth generation American and have never met their immigrant Great Great Great Grandparents.
Yes, my family is from immigrants. My grandfather and all of his family came over from Europe about 100 years ago. I certainly knew my grandfather! My sister-in-law is also an immigrant, making my nieces and nephews first-generation Americans for that side of the family. I've worked with many, many people from quite a few different countries who are now US citizens.

So from my perspective, yes, we are a nation of immigrants.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:13 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 1,992,949 times
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We are a hemisphere of immigrants. The majority of people in the Americas today have their indigenous ethnic roots on another continent. If your ancestors came as criminals escaping justice, frustrated revolutionaries, mercenaries to fight the natives, missionaries to convert the heathen or just fell out of the sky you are technically an immigrant or at best a migrant or at least the descendant of immigrants. We just have to live with that horrid fact.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:24 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,234,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
We are a hemisphere of immigrants. The majority of people in the Americas today have their indigenous ethnic roots on another continent. If your ancestors came as criminals escaping justice, frustrated revolutionaries, mercenaries to fight the natives, missionaries to convert the heathen or just fell out of the sky you are technically an immigrant or at best a migrant or at least the descendant of immigrants. We just have to live with that horrid fact.
An immigrant is someone who moves from one nation to another foreign nation.

In the case of the western hemisphere there were no nations, or if you argue there were, at the least they didn't have an "immigration policy." Spaniards didn't "immigrate" into the Aztec or Incan Empires. Brits didn't "immigrate" to the eastern seaboard. African slaves didn't "immigrate" to these areas either.

Perhaps we're all migrants -- sure. That's not the same as an immigrant.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,702,400 times
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3 Generations ago, my family immigrated from Eastern Europe. They were poor, uneducated, got drunk often, gambled too much, didn't speak much English, kept to their immigrant community, and didn't generate much economic activity. They worked odd jobs in a major city and eventually moved to the countryside and started a small farm that did not prosper.

2 Generations ago, my family moved off the failing farm, got HS diplomas, and went to work factory jobs in the big city. At one point, they assembled shells for the WWII war effort. Mostly they worked on civilian farm equipment.

1 Generation ago, my family went to the University, got medical degrees and dedicated their lives to improving the health and saving people from deadly diseases. Some also designed and built automobiles and aircraft.

The current generation designs and builds spaceships. I went back to the old family homestead in the "home country" a few years ago. It is a village lost in time. The passage of a car is a notable event. The major industry is pig farming and apple-orchard tending. No one in the entire country builds spacecraft.

Yes, we're a nation of immigrants, and those who make the effort to immigrate to a better life make one for themselves and those around them. Those who stay in one place stagnate.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:43 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 1,992,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
An immigrant is someone who moves from one nation to another foreign nation.

In the case of the western hemisphere there were no nations, or if you argue there were, at the least they didn't have an "immigration policy." Spaniards didn't "immigrate" into the Aztec or Incan Empires. Brits didn't "immigrate" to the eastern seaboard. African slaves didn't "immigrate" to these areas either.

Perhaps we're all migrants -- sure. That's not the same as an immigrant.
I gave you one more choice you failed to mention and that was descendants of immigrants. They are not native species but like the Burmese python, the Boa Constrictor, the Asian Panther or the African Crocodile that escape into the Florida everglades Spaniards, Frenchmen, Englishmen or Germans we are all invasive species who do not naturally belong here and having few natural predators we have made the natural species an endangered species and in many areas extinct.
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