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Old 04-09-2013, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Australia
432 posts, read 1,001,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
Better not come to Seattle, other than the racism it's pretty much the same, on average there are fewer than 60 sunny days / year. Of course in the US if you don't like it you can move to another state, there are 49 other very different states to choose from. If you don't like the UK you're pretty much stuck.
That's funny! You are right, lots of rain in Seattle, I have relatives that live there so have been number of times but it is a beautiful place and has lots to offer. I have lived in a number of different states in my younger adult years and when I was in the military. I am actually moving back to my home state of Minnesota and honestly probably would not live in Seattle because of the lack of sunny days.

There was some things that I did like about the Wales and England from living there for over 5 years, however the Cons definitely out weighed the Pro's. I believe what makes someone enjoy where they are living is based on many factors.

One of the most important factors for me was having friends and being accepted. I had no relatives living over there. I was a "American" women living in the UK and I viewed much racism, not always verbally but very much in their actions. I was always the "outsider" and it was lonely. When your lonely and it's gray with the rain I think that made it worse.

Maybe things have changed alot over the years, but it was hard for me and my children in the late 80's living in small towns. My ex was English but that did not even help at that time.

My brother in law (sister died) met an English lady when on vacation in Las Vegas and they live part time in UK and part time in MN. He even mentioned that he has noticed the non acceptance of Americans and that is a recent opinion from him.

 
Old 04-18-2013, 10:11 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,202 posts, read 1,608,477 times
Reputation: 968
[quote=va_lucky;28822545]I have lived in both places and I'd like to debate which is better. I have the right to live in either place but choose the USA.

At first, I thought that the UK was a better place to live but now think the opposite overall.

I don't think that the UK can offer very much that USA can't and I think that the USA is better overall.

UK folks have a several hour headstart........

Here are my observations/thoughts/viewpoints:

1) USA has more affordable housing (single family homes) than the UK. You can have a yard and/or real land yet still be more easily commutable to a city (in many circumstances) without going broke. Totally agree with you here.

2) I think that overall the UK has less materialistic people than the USA. I think that people are generally a bit more sincere, down to earth, honest in the UK but not much. That's what people seem to say on most forum discussion about this topic.

3) Wages are overall higher in the USA than in the UK and taxes are lower especially when you are solidly middle class. Yep. Unless you are at the bottom of the wage pool. In that case, you'll be paid better in the UK.

4) I think that you have more freedom of speech in the UK. We can legally own guns for the purpose of self defense (while not always used that way unfortunately). I have no idea about this. There doesn't seem to be a significant difference between the two countries imo.

5) I think you all get better vacations/holiday in the UK overall, but for some Americans that can be mitigated by choosing a job with similar benefits. Agreed.

6) I think the food is better in the UK...better bacon, Chinese, and Indian food overall. Didn't the UK ban GMOs? Or at least label them? That in itself would make the food better, imo.

7) There are pros and cons to the medical situation in both places, I think the UK is better overall but I think you get better healthcare here if you can afford it even though it is hit or miss. I Agree.

8) I think the job market is better in the USA than in the UK. I think that the job market in the UK is hurting worse than in the USA. I don't know how you get this idea? Both countries have the same unemployment rate.

9) I think that poverty in the UK is worse than the USA from personal observations. Have you been to Southern Appalachia in the USA?

10) I think that crime is worse overall in the UK than in the USA (besides gun violence). The UK seems to have quite a bit of knife slashings and beatings don't seem to be penalized like they are here. Someone beats someone up in the UK nothing generally happens. If you do that in the USA (even over a single punch) you will probably go to jail/prison for a while. It doesn't seem that there are deterrents for beatings in the UK. (I kind of like that actually but I am sure that it makes for unjustified beatings as well). I think that people may be less inclinded to screw around with each other for no reason because they could get a beat down. Here, we have to "fight with our heads" which I don't always like. I've spent a lot of time trying to see if crime is worse in the UK and I'm still not so sure. But it's is probably pretty close. I think that at least in the US, you can find a lot of neighborhoods and small towns that are virtually free of crime, but I don't think that's the case in the UK. Also, my dad who lives in the US, but was born and raised in the UK is always getting arrested by trying to solve problems by beating the crap out of people here. So yeah...that's my first hand anecdote of that culture. lol

11) Public Transport is better in the UK but I fundamentally dislike public transport due to getting sick more often on it. I prefer public transit, but I from what I've looked at, it appears that paying for public transit in the UK would cost as much or more than owning and driving a modest car in the US. So that's not very exciting to me.

12) I think it generally safer for kids to grow up in the USA than in the UK. The judicial system doesn't tolerate neds etc. I have no idea about this. I would say it's pretty frickin safe where I live in Arkansas, though.

13) I think that the UK has a much better safety net than the USA, but I avoid living in areas where a safety net is required. The safety nets in the US are pretty decent, all things considered. The only thing that is possibly a problem is right to work laws that make no job secure and you could potentially lose a job and not qualify for unemployment benefits. I've never experienced that problem. The low cost of living in many US places makes this not a big deal, for the most part.

Conclusion: You have more choices in the USA. If you like something about the UK that you can't get here, you can generally pursue it. It seems that in the UK most of your decisions are made for you and it is harder for the average person to climb above a certain rung in the ladder. In the USA, you can make more decisions for yourself if you are willing to put just a bit more effort into it. I agree you have more choices as this is a huge country with fifty different states. It's also considerable cheaper to live here overall for all things except health care. I think as long as you can get and keep affordable health care, the US is better overall. However, I don't think it's easier to "move up the ladder." At least one study confirms this idea: Howard Steven Friedman: The American Myth of Social Mobility

For the social mobility reason, along with better pay, benefits and safety nets for low income workers, I think the UK is probably a better place for those on the bottom of the social ladder.[/
quote]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post

Also, for every one person in the US who desires to move to England, there are 69 persons in England who want to move to the US.
Is there a citation for this, or is this your opinion? I don't know at all about this, but just reading through the UK forums here, it seems the main people wanting to move to the US are already pretty well off in the UK. There are some industries where the pay is a lot higher in the US and that is their main motivation. Some are nurses, who have gotten their nursing education for free in the UK and then moved here because nursing pay is higher in some states. If nurses had free education here, I wonder if the salaries would be that much better? Who knows.

It's also possible that many jobs that pay more in the US also require a lot more hours with less benefits and vacations. So when all things are factored in, the pay may be very similar.
 
Old 04-18-2013, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
5,829 posts, read 3,366,089 times
Reputation: 3986
I'm from the UK but currently living in the US. I bought a house so it is a semi permanent move but I think I will return to the UK one day, probably within the next 5-10 years.
I have sorted your comments into those I agree with and those I disagree with.


Agree
1) USA has more affordable housing (single family homes) than the UK. You can have a yard and/or real land yet still be more easily commutable to a city (in many circumstances) without going broke.

2) I think that overall the UK has less materialistic people than the USA. I think that people are generally a bit more sincere, down to earth, honest in the UK but not much.

3) Wages are overall higher in the USA than in the UK and taxes are lower especially when you are solidly middle class.

4) I think that you have more freedom of speech in the UK. Definitely more freedom of speech in the UK. Here in the US I feel like I'm treading on eggshells half the time. People are very easily offended here. In the UK you can say what you like pretty much to anyone. Nobody gets offended by it.
Can legally own guns for the purpose of self defense (USA)
Can legally own guns except for the purpose of self defense (UK).

5) I think you all get better vacations/holiday in the UK overall, but for some Americans that can be mitigated by choosing a job with similar benefits. The British definitely get more time off work. 4-6 weeks paid holidays I'd say is roughly standard. Services such as nursing or the police get very good paid holiday benefits.

6) I think the food is better in the UK...better bacon, Chinese, and Indian food overall.

7) There are pros and cons to the medical situation in both places, I think the UK is better overall but I think you get better healthcare here if you can afford it even though it is hit or miss. The UK National Health Service is in my opinion the pride of the country. Others will disagree but my family has had world class treatment for very serious illnesses and this is available to everyone. I have no complaints about the service I have here but then obviously I can afford it, which is the sticking point.

8) I think the job market is better in the USA than in the UK. I think that the job market in the UK is hurting worse than in the USA.

11) Public Transport is better in the UK but I fundamentally dislike public transport due to getting sick more often on it. Infinitely better, no question.

13) I think that the UK has a much better safety net than the USA, but I avoid living in areas where a safety net is required.


Strongly disagree
9) I think that poverty in the UK is worse than the USA from personal observations.
I have never seen poverty back home the extent that I have seen it here. The UK used to have a big homeless problem similar to that you see here in America today, particularly in London but that has improved immeasurably in the last few decades. I have never seen the condition of people homeless people like I see every single day here. Travelling into San Francisco yesterday I must have seen twenty of more homeless begging on street corners, some with kids. This is about standard here. Every day on my way to the supermarket there are many people with all their worldy possessions in shopping carts. I know what people will say - "ah that's just California though - you can't count that in with the rest of America" It's a common reaction and used as if that makes it all ok. People seem blind to it. Well we are talking about America and that's my experience. Its the single biggest factor that makes me want to return to the UK someday. I find it very upsetting.

10) I think that crime is worse overall in the UK than in the USA (besides gun violence). The UK seems to have quite a bit of knife slashings and beatings don't seem to be penalized like they are here. Someone beats someone up in the UK nothing generally happens. If you do that in the USA (even over a single punch) you will probably go to jail/prison for a while. It doesn't seem that there are deterrents for beatings in the UK. (I kind of like that actually but I am sure that it makes for unjustified beatings as well). I think that people may be less inclinded to screw around with each other for no reason because they could get a beat down. Here, we have to "fight with our heads" which I don't always like. I don't think you can just sweep the gun violence under the carpet as though it doesn't exist. It is part of the crime problem. You cant just pick and choose the bits you like. You have to include it all.

12) I think it generally safer for kids to grow up in the USA than in the UK. The judicial system doesn't tolerate neds etc. I don't agree. I feel far less safe here because of the gun violence, but then I live in a crime ridden state and a crime ridden city.

It seems that in the UK most of your decisions are made for you. Strongly disagree with this. It is a widely held misconception that Brits have all their decisions made for them when the truth is that if a law is passed in Britain, it usually has the vast support of the Nation behind it and if something does get through we don't like, we campaign against it until it is abolished. We like rules. Rules are usually there for good reasons and generally the nation supports them.

Conclusion: You have more choices in the USA. If you like something about the UK that you can't get here, you can generally pursue it..
..and it is harder for the average person to climb above a certain rung in the ladder.
This is not the case. We had a long discussion about this on the UK forum. Social mobility is about as bad in the US as it is in the UK:
Quote:
Originally Posted by George & Bill View Post
There are as many similarities as there are differences between the US and UK when it comes to social class and social mobility...
http://www.oecd.org/tax/public-finan...gfg%202010.pdf
In the USA, you can make more decisions for yourself if you are willing to put just a bit more effort into it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My conclusion would be that I agree with most of your post. I don't agree on crime or poverty. I'm not going to get into an argument on the gun issue, it has been discussed to death elsewhere and everywhere on this forum. The US reminds me in a lot of ways of how Britain was in the 80's. It is still a very selfish society. You can get rich here, and there are job opportunities in certain fields that do no exist in the UK (reason we are here). I actually prefer the US education system! I like that fact that you can explore a variety of fields well into higher education and I think there is more opportunity for movement within that. I think you already have to have the finances behind you though, and I think that social mobility is just as difficult here in the US as it is in the UK. The reasons I would want to return to the UK someday, would be primarily in my eyes: More equal society (less-in-your face poverty), being able to speak freely without fear of offending people, more time off (better work/life balance) and safer environment for my kids.

Last edited by Cruithne; 04-18-2013 at 12:06 PM..
 
Old 04-19-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,409 posts, read 2,003,975 times
Reputation: 3272
Having lived in Scotland for 4 years for college, I will say this...

One needs to compare apples with apples. There's no point comparing NYC with rural Scotland or London with a ranch town in Oklahoma. Very broadly speaking...

I will disagree on certain points with the above. I found political correctness a significant issue and comparable to NY. Same regime of fear.

I found the food situation a mixed bag. Indian was the highlight, but outside of London, I found the Chinese dreadful. I found imported European produce to be excellent, and I enjoyed Scottish beef. The UK has access to decent-to-excellent raw ingredients, but I found the cookery very uninteresting and subpar. The better stuff commands an extraordinary premium to what well-prepared food costs in NYC.

I find the anti-self defence norms problematic, especially given Britain's notorious drunken hooliganism.

But overall....

If I were to become upper-middle or upper class, I'd prefer to be in the US.
If I were working or middle class, I'd take the UK, given the boons of the NHS and cheaper university education.

Poverty? It's a toss-up, as slow-grinding misery knows no borders, but the UK wins by a slim margin due to social benefits.


A major point about living in the UK is the openly acknowledged classism that is permeates British life and society. It makes Americans uncomfortable, but of course the US only differs in not openly acknowledging its own. However, even the veneer of egalitarianism can occasionally (rarely) offer the one shot someone talented needs. In Britain, I found that by and large, there was significant "writing off" of social groups: state school kids, council house dwellers, people with the wrong accent etc etc. At least in the US, our accents do not betray the entirety of our social standing, education, and our parents' social standing.
 
Old 04-20-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
5,829 posts, read 3,366,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R2-D2 View Post
Entire US (black) inner cities have been "written off" by comfortable Joe White-Middleclass living in the suburbs, who never ventures into those "bad areas" and seldom comes into contact with America's poor, many of whom are totally stuck in their situations and live in ghettos far worse and far more dangerous than anything you will find in Europe.
I have been reflecting on how this week has gone in America and in the UK and it makes me feel that if I could go back to the UK tomorrow, I would. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to do that, so it will have to wait for now. This week has highlighted for me so much that is wrong here.
This is a country where although 90% of the population supports some kind of gun legislation, not a single bill was able to be pushed through congress. The same country where 83 people die every day from a gunshot wound and statistically one of those will be under the age of 14. Compare this with the UK after the Dunblaine massacre where it was the people themselves who pushed the government to tighten up gun ownership.
In my city (Oakland) the flags at the ferry port have been at half mast in recognition of those who died or were injured in Boston. Yet two people are killed by gunfire in this city on average every single week. And nobody cares or is doing a damn thing to stop it.
I simply don't understand the reactions. I had lived here exactly 2 weeks when a one year old boy was fatally shot in the head just a few miles from where I live. The reactions right here on city data say it all: http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-francisco-oakland/1437404-oakland-violent-dangerous-city.html Where is the compassion for Americas own country people who are killed right here in America on a daily basis?
What R-2 D-2 says about poverty is correct and reflects the poverty I see daily here. We have this saying in the UK "I'm alright Jack" which means as long as I'm OK I won't worry about the plight of anyone else. The OP admitted himself "I avoid living in areas where a safety net is required". Of course you do. Who wouldn't? Because people avoid it they pretend it doesn't exist. Well you can't avoid it in California, its staring at you in the face. The frustrating thing for me in America this week has been seeing how powerless Obama was to instigate change. He must be wondering what on earth is the point of his being there. This week has been a particularly depressing one for America.
It's been a depressing week of a different sort in the UK. The death of Margaret Thatcher had people literally partying on the street. I abhor that kind of behaviour, it's crass and inappropriate. However it did have the country reflecting on how much times have changed since the Thatcher years. MP Glenda Jackson gave a truthful speech in the commons reflecting on the Thatcher years. She reflected how poverty and homelessness became so bad in the 80's that London became a city Hogarth would have recognised. I reflected that she should come to California because its exactly like that here and now.
An interesting week to start a thread like this. Emotions are high and it's times like these that we can reflect on the best and worst America has to offer. I'm sure someone will be along to present the case for the best America has to offer, but this week I'm afraid I'm far from impressed.
 
Old 04-21-2013, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Roanoke VA
2,031 posts, read 5,988,300 times
Reputation: 894
I think it is difficult to compare the U.S. with just about any other nation even with all of our troubles.
I don 't mean to say we are the best, I hope we can maintain our standard of living despite efforts by
Big Corporations and the U.S. government to destroy our way of life.
 
Old 04-21-2013, 01:14 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,098,930 times
Reputation: 17978
I think UD S is becasue of teh ooportunity;more total freedom of indicidual and likelyhood to achieve success. For those dependt o others i would say europe can be but it depedns on degree of dependence.But i the end the US has taken a different pathbecause poepl by a overwheming majority want it this way. It has poroblems of the lack of control but that alos makes for what so many value.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Toronto
2,161 posts, read 2,255,592 times
Reputation: 1148
I'm originally English. I've lived in a lot of places. I miss England, I love visiting England, but I have no desire to reside there again. Out of Canada and the US, I choose Canada (I have a choice due to Canadian/American husband). But choosing between UK and US? I'd pick the US. I hate to say it. I'm proud of my heritage and family. But for all of their quick wit, better work/life balance and sincerity... they're depressing. I'll take American faults over being depressed. That's why the humour is so much better in England. You have to have a great sense of humour to combat the dour mood. And unfortunately, my sense of humour just isn't up to it.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 08:35 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,116 posts, read 3,397,430 times
Reputation: 8682
I realize it's a debate...however, for all the reasons posted here (and they are all very reasonable and logical replies (well, most of them anyway), the bottom line is wherever we feel comfortable, content, safe and happy with our environment is the best place to live.

Best regards, sincerely

HomeIsWhere...
 
Old 05-21-2013, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,096 posts, read 9,618,988 times
Reputation: 5271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Way too general. For most of these points, the differences vary more in 50 miles in any US city than they do country to country. Jobs, housing, food, public transportation, etc.

Also, for every one person in the US who desires to move to England, there are 69 persons in England who want to move to the US.
You have a source for such an outlandish statement? Far, far and away most British wanting to leave the UK head to Canada, Australia, or Spain. Most UK immigrants to the US are coming for relationships with a company or spouse. Most British find the US lifestyle or system kind of distasteful imo. I've talked to quite a few about this.
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