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Old 05-21-2013, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,096 posts, read 9,622,753 times
Reputation: 5271

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
I have been reflecting on how this week has gone in America and in the UK and it makes me feel that if I could go back to the UK tomorrow, I would. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to do that, so it will have to wait for now. This week has highlighted for me so much that is wrong here.
This is a country where although 90% of the population supports some kind of gun legislation, not a single bill was able to be pushed through congress. The same country where 83 people die every day from a gunshot wound and statistically one of those will be under the age of 14. Compare this with the UK after the Dunblaine massacre where it was the people themselves who pushed the government to tighten up gun ownership.
In my city (Oakland) the flags at the ferry port have been at half mast in recognition of those who died or were injured in Boston. Yet two people are killed by gunfire in this city on average every single week. And nobody cares or is doing a damn thing to stop it.
I simply don't understand the reactions. I had lived here exactly 2 weeks when a one year old boy was fatally shot in the head just a few miles from where I live. The reactions right here on city data say it all: http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-francisco-oakland/1437404-oakland-violent-dangerous-city.html Where is the compassion for Americas own country people who are killed right here in America on a daily basis?
What R-2 D-2 says about poverty is correct and reflects the poverty I see daily here. We have this saying in the UK "I'm alright Jack" which means as long as I'm OK I won't worry about the plight of anyone else. The OP admitted himself "I avoid living in areas where a safety net is required". Of course you do. Who wouldn't? Because people avoid it they pretend it doesn't exist. Well you can't avoid it in California, its staring at you in the face. The frustrating thing for me in America this week has been seeing how powerless Obama was to instigate change. He must be wondering what on earth is the point of his being there. This week has been a particularly depressing one for America.
It's been a depressing week of a different sort in the UK. The death of Margaret Thatcher had people literally partying on the street. I abhor that kind of behaviour, it's crass and inappropriate. However it did have the country reflecting on how much times have changed since the Thatcher years. MP Glenda Jackson gave a truthful speech in the commons reflecting on the Thatcher years. She reflected how poverty and homelessness became so bad in the 80's that London became a city Hogarth would have recognised. I reflected that she should come to California because its exactly like that here and now.
An interesting week to start a thread like this. Emotions are high and it's times like these that we can reflect on the best and worst America has to offer. I'm sure someone will be along to present the case for the best America has to offer, but this week I'm afraid I'm far from impressed.

So true. Many red state right wing Americans have a general distrust and downright hatred of government. Majorities in the right wing red states generally believe that churches and charities should provide support to the poor. They don't really believe in govt except for military defense.

In the more moderate or progressive states we don't agree with this. Problem is that we have been stuck with each other through an accident of history.

I would be very happy to see this country break up, so we each could go our own way. Currently our nation is ungovernable because of this. Hence the reason the gun legislation couldn't pass. It is one crazy country.

 
Old 06-16-2013, 04:55 AM
 
4 posts, read 18,344 times
Reputation: 23
UK: Cons
Racist people
People are cold and rude.
People feel that they are doing you a favor by letting you live here. Strange!
Us vs them attitude prevents people of other cultures to integrate.
Weather is horrible.

UK: Pros
Good quality food
History and signs of glorious past

USA: With hard work, you can be who you want to be. Very little discrimination and social mobility is huge.
Unmatched higher ed. UK does not even come close.
Friendly and more optimistic people.
Like the American sense of humor.
More space...
More diversity...
Higher wages and salaries

USA: Cons
Poverty but this is impossible to avoid in a country of this size.
People don't care much about the rest of the world

Overall, UK had a glorious past but USA has a glorious present/future!! At this point in time, there is no better place to live in the world. Period.
 
Old 06-17-2013, 05:17 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
18,050 posts, read 17,191,107 times
Reputation: 30235
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspacemiami View Post
UK: Cons
Racist people
People are cold and rude.
People feel that they are doing you a favor by letting you live here. Strange!
Us vs them attitude prevents people of other cultures to integrate.
Weather is horrible.

UK: Pros
Good quality food
History and signs of glorious past
Racist people, yes, but there are pockets of racism in the US. In the UK it seems to be more acceptable.
People are warm and friendly
Weather doesn't go to extremes. Summers are cool and pleasant. In the US it's either too hot or too cold and there is a lot of dangerous weather.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nspacemiami View Post

USA: With hard work, you can be who you want to be. Very little discrimination and social mobility is huge.
Unmatched higher ed. UK does not even come close.
Friendly and more optimistic people.
Like the American sense of humor.
More space...
More diversity...
Higher wages and salaries

USA: Cons
Poverty but this is impossible to avoid in a country of this size.
People don't care much about the rest of the world
US--often you can get ahead by working hard but it also depends on who you know. The wealth is held by a few.
People don't feel optimistic anymore now that the country is going down hill and everything is made in China.
Each country has its own good sense of humor.
More space....yes
More diversity--UK has quite a bit of diversity. Depends on how many and how well they assimilate. Neither country seems to be doing too well in this department.
Higher pay--yes.
Poverty--should not be no matter how high the population. UK has better safety net for its people.
We are someone isolated geographically from the rest of the world so, yes, that's a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nspacemiami View Post
Overall, UK had a glorious past but USA has a glorious present/future!! At this point in time, there is no better place to live in the world. Period.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:21 AM
 
292 posts, read 390,952 times
Reputation: 270
I could not find any data on Americans wanting to immigrate to the UK, but




About 10% of Americans would like to leave their country. That's around 35 million people.
We don't know where they would like to immigrate to, but I would imagine it'd be mainly English speaking countries. It is estimated that there are currently about 200,000 Americans in the UK, and they make up the 5th most common foreign nationality there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreig...United_Kingdom

According to the latest census, there are about 680,000 British expats in the US

English American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 06-17-2013, 10:49 PM
 
4 posts, read 18,344 times
Reputation: 23
I don't understand how you can justify racism in the UK. It exists and it is acceptable. What kind of remark is this?

I have been in the UK for a month now. I have not felt so odd in any other country in Europe. Given my American background, there is something weird about the English people that rubs me in the wrong way. Probably, it is the class based social structure. Or, perhaps their sense that we were the greatest nation in the world (which is true but there were other great nations in the world), so call us great now too (which they are not). The "chip on the shoulder" attitude is quite obvious. Even one of the cab drivers told me: There are several great cities in the world but London is the best! If it is the best city, let me say that, not you. Otherwise, it just sounds hollow!

US is the current/future leader of the world and UK is not even close. The British people have to get over it. The US universities are FAR superior to those in the UK and there is just no match in R&D between the two countries. US has produced companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Ebay, and so on... What has UK given to the world lately? US is the center of innovation right now and this is the driver of the US economy. UK has nothing like this going. It is just basking in its past glory! Move on!!

In the UK, I have seen all major US symbols... Starbucks, US brands, cars, etc. There is no British presence in the US, except perhaps their Jaguar and Land Rover cars. US can live without the UK but UK can't.

Overall, I just don't think UK even comes close to the US! Of course, this is a biased opinion but I am eager to hear the counter-arguments. So far, after spending a month in the UK, I am eager to return to the US. I just cannot imagine living in this old, cold, and claustrophobic environment!
 
Old 06-17-2013, 11:20 PM
 
374 posts, read 421,779 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspacemiami View Post
UK: Cons
Racist people
People are cold and rude.
People feel that they are doing you a favor by letting you live here. Strange!
Us vs them attitude prevents people of other cultures to integrate.
Weather is horrible.

UK: Pros
Good quality food
History and signs of glorious past

USA: With hard work, you can be who you want to be. Very little discrimination and social mobility is huge.
Unmatched higher ed. UK does not even come close.
Friendly and more optimistic people.
Like the American sense of humor.
More space...
More diversity...
Higher wages and salaries

USA: Cons
Poverty but this is impossible to avoid in a country of this size.
People don't care much about the rest of the world

Overall, UK had a glorious past but USA has a glorious present/future!! At this point in time, there is no better place to live in the world. Period.

The cons you stated are here because of many of the pros you stated.

What made us great was not diversity,but unity,not multiculture but American culture.Well all this is gone and so is this nation.Grass is always greener on the other side. The more cultures,the more clashes.Most of this nation is on welfare now,soon the bottom will fallout and chaos will be the norm.We have lost most of our freedoms to special interest for past 30 years have been ruled by dictators with no resistance from the people.

Immmigrants use to come and join us,now they come to change us into what they left. No nation ever survived under diversity,it only grew when all had the same kind of alliegence,no mattter the race or ethnicity.Just my opinion if I still have one.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 12:39 AM
 
4 posts, read 18,344 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokesalad4u2 View Post
The cons you stated are here because of many of the pros you stated.

What made us great was not diversity,but unity,not multiculture but American culture.Well all this is gone and so is this nation.Grass is always greener on the other side. The more cultures,the more clashes.Most of this nation is on welfare now,soon the bottom will fallout and chaos will be the norm.We have lost most of our freedoms to special interest for past 30 years have been ruled by dictators with no resistance from the people.

Immmigrants use to come and join us,now they come to change us into what they left. No nation ever survived under diversity,it only grew when all had the same kind of alliegence,no mattter the race or ethnicity.Just my opinion if I still have one.
I agree with both your points. American culture made US great + immigrants are less reluctant to assimilate. However, I do not hold as pessimistic view about the US as you. There will be ups and downs in any economy... just part of the normal "business cycle". Even short-run bad economic environment can be good in the long run! The innovation and R&D in the US will bring it out of the economic crisis. I think the economy is already showing signs of healthy growth. With a bit more optimism, I think the US will be the driver of the world economy and the "can do" attitude of American people will bring prosperity around the globe!

Regarding immigrants: they assimilate a lot more easily in the US than Europe. In fact, people all over the world find the American culture very appealing. It is less hierarchical, more accepting, and with a nice sense of humor. However, it is also reasonable and perhaps okay to maintain some connection to the past. I don't see anything wrong with it. This connection gives people a unique identity and we should not take that away from them.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 12:50 AM
 
4 posts, read 18,344 times
Reputation: 23
Paparappa, the university rankings and innovation rankings you mention are controversial. Universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, Cal Tech, UC Berkeley, UPenn, Columbia, Princeton, etc. are unmatched. Oxford, Cambridge, etc. are not even close. You can provide these rankings but they don't mean much. Ask an academic whether he wants to be at Harvard/MIT/Yale/Princeton or Cambridge/Oxford? I have a feeling that 100% would pick the US univs over those in the UK.

The innovation rankings are also meaningless as they rank the mean/median. Who cares about the mean/median? The tails of the distribution is more meaningful as they represent the "major innovations". On that dimension, US is unmatched. Give me examples of global innovators outside of the US. I can give you at least 10 major US innovations in the last few years... innovations that have changed the world. Google, Facebook, Ebay, Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Pixar, etc. These companies have fundamentally altered the way we live. Give me examples from other countries that have changed us fundamentally. I cannot think of one! Cheers.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:28 AM
 
Location: England
3,242 posts, read 3,023,371 times
Reputation: 3182
Well there's the WWW invented by Tim Berners-Lee a Brit and of course Kane Kramer the British inventor of the Ipod. You obviously have a selective memory. Other British inventions that spring to mind are, the jet engine, radar,television,sonar, the computer etc etc
And to say that British universities like Oxford, Cambridge etc are not on a par with the best American universities is patently ludicrous.

And for an American to call the British racist is one of the best examples of the pot calling the kettle black that I've heard. After all black people were still being lynched in your country until the early eighties. You should get rid of that chip on your shoulder.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:37 AM
 
292 posts, read 390,952 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspacemiami View Post
Paparappa, the university rankings and innovation rankings you mention are controversial. Universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, Cal Tech, UC Berkeley, UPenn, Columbia, Princeton, etc. are unmatched. Oxford, Cambridge, etc. are not even close. You can provide these rankings but they don't mean much. Ask an academic whether he wants to be at Harvard/MIT/Yale/Princeton or Cambridge/Oxford? I have a feeling that 100% would pick the US univs over those in the UK.
That's what you say. I don't see why I should trust you over the rankings.
Quote:
The innovation rankings are also meaningless as they rank the mean/median. Who cares about the mean/median? The tails of the distribution is more meaningful as they represent the "major innovations". On that dimension, US is unmatched. Give me examples of global innovators outside of the US. I can give you at least 10 major US innovations in the last few years... innovations that have changed the world. Google, Facebook, Ebay, Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Pixar, etc. These companies have fundamentally altered the way we live. Give me examples from other countries that have changed us fundamentally. I cannot think of one! Cheers.
And those companies often rely on foreign technologies (or people) to deliver their innovative products. Apple's stuff was designed by a British guy (Jonathan Ive). The iPhone uses an ARM processor, which are made by ARM Holdings, a British company; the iPhone's battery, camera, and probably other components as well were designed and manufactured by Asian companies. Microsoft's new Xbox will play Blu Ray Discs, which were developed by Sony (Japanese) and Philips (Dutch). Movies studios use Sony or Fujitsu cameras. Facebook and Google's computers probably contain some Japanese hardware. Angry birds was made by Finnish developers. The most famous Android smartphone maker is Samsung (South Korean). HTC is also Taiwanese. Google Glasses and self-driving cars were in part developed by a German guy (Sebastian Thrun). Many hospitals use CT Scanners and MRIs made by Japanese or Dutch companies. Some of the best games of the last 10 years were developed by Ubisoft (French). Kobo is Canadian.

The US has some of the world's biggest companies, but they often they are successful only because they rely on foreign innovation and individuals.
A company might be "American" because its headquarters are in the US, yet its ideas might come from immigrants, its technology from foreigners, and its money might be kept in foreign tax havens.
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