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-closing down of businesses (sometimes due to crime)
Would you want to still live in your old neighborhood if now street gangs were roaming at random, drive-by shootings were becoming the norm, illegal drugs were being peddled on the corner, a lot of the local stores were closing up and moving and you had nothing in common with the new neighborhood inhabitants?
-closing down of businesses (sometimes due to crime)
Would you want to still live in your old neighborhood if now street gangs were roaming at random, drive-by shootings were becoming the norm, illegal drugs were being peddled on the corner, a lot of the local stores were closing up and moving and you had nothing in common with the new neighborhood inhabitants?
^^^This.
Crime. Crime. Crime. Crime. Crime.
Was just driving by what was once "the mall" to go to in the metro area just 10 years or so ago.
It's been completely bulldozed now.
Call it whatever you desire but the reality is that nobody likes getting mugged, hassled, car broken into etc. and it works the same way for residential living.
The other thriving mall in the area has crime on occasion but they police that mall like fort knox. The word is definitely out for at least the local criminals that if you do something around there you're going to get caught most of the time.
They have curfew and loitering restrictions and the mall cops are numerous and quick to respond.
If this is the case, then why are there many non-Whites moving to White areas? Why do so many Blacks who have money and good jobs move to predominantly White areas?
They do not. Black people are the only race where affluent individuals and families still live in redlined parts of town. Only a tiny percentage of the well off black community are living in "white areas". And, there is white and there is white. Because I am in an interracial relationship I get to live in parts of town where it would have been impossible to obtain a lease. It still is not that easy and we often have to resort to the deception of my SO going to the open house alone to check things out. But back to my point. We live in an area considered white right now. Nice, it is NOT. On the east coast a predominantly white area is usually very attractive, very safe and very desirable. In the mid-west and on the west coast (I don't know about the south) plenty of white areas are rundown (sketchy) with a propensity towards property crime and vandalism. Moderately well to do blacks (and some hispanics) will often live in areas like this vs the totally unlivable black areas.
Was just driving by what was once "the mall" to go to in the metro area just 10 years or so ago.
It's been completely bulldozed now.
Call it whatever you desire but the reality is that nobody likes getting mugged, hassled, car broken into etc. and it works the same way for residential living.
The other thriving mall in the area has crime on occasion but they police that mall like fort knox. The word is definitely out for at least the local criminals that if you do something around there you're going to get caught most of the time.
They have curfew and loitering restrictions and the mall cops are numerous and quick to respond.
Not a bit of it. White flight is caused by the fear of property value declining in the event that a neighborhood reaches enough ethnic impurity as to become redlined. As I understand it, white flight was controlled in Oak Park, IL by a secret fund and a promise from the city to make up the difference between the assessed value of a home and what the seller needed to get to be made whole. Sellers also where restricted on the placement of 'for sale' signs. These homewoners were not responding to crime. There was no crime. All there was was the fear that in ... 5... 10... 20 years when they wanted to cash out that they wouldn't make the kinds of uber profits that previous generations had! The crime only takes hold AFTER all the white families have fled and the city withdraws essential services and law enforcement turns away from its mandate to serve and protect the law abiding to extortion and the supervision of criminal enterprises in its jurisdiction.
I cannot comment on Chicago, but I can comment on two situations.
First is a neighborhood where my wife's parents and uncle lived, small city in Texas. Neighborhood was homes built in 20's, stable. In the 1970's, black families started moving in due to lower housing costs, often into rentals as the older population were selling their homes or their heirs were. The black stable families fit in well, became friends with the white families. But with rental properties, you also got an undesirable group, with increasing crime. The wife's father died, and we convinced the mother to move down near other relatives, disposed of the home for almost nothing as there was no market for the home. My wife's aunt still lived there for a while alone, but we got her out when she found a burglar in the home. Te neighborhood continues to decline as there is no economic impetus for regrowth, renewal. Middle class minorities have moved out to other areas, leaving the crime behind.
Second is urban Dallas. Areas that once were exclusively white became minority areas, mixture of rentals, large homes converted to rental apartments, etc. But with the growth, gentrification in these areas is occurring. Pockets of homes are purchased, with white professionals moving in, restoring and renewing the housing. But who is complaining? Minority 'leaders'. Because they are losing political clout. The fact that the neighborhood is being renewed, vacant houses are either being demolished and replaced, or are being renovated, property values climbing, and crime dropping is not relevant in their eyes. Only the loss of political power, because that is how they make their money. Not by improving the lot of,those in the neighborhood, but by selling the idea that the people are trapped and these 'leaders' are their only hope.
I sold out of my old neighborhood people moving in didn't take care of their homes let weeds grow and junky cars parked in the lawn. One night shots were fired at a house turned out people selling drugs there someone fired at the home drive by shooting. I sold the house a month later we got out of there. That was 20 years ago that area is all minority's now mostly Hispanic. The home I lived in still there looks the same still see the same front door I put up 20 years ago.
Perpetually damaged businesses and homes.
Never ending bullying at school.
Graffiti on every flat surface, every train, every truck, every building and trash everywhere.
Increasingly "third-world" living conditions.
Routine arson.
Crime.
Racism.
They do not. Black people are the only race where affluent individuals and families still live in redlined parts of town. Only a tiny percentage of the well off black community are living in "white areas". And, there is white and there is white. Because I am in an interracial relationship I get to live in parts of town where it would have been impossible to obtain a lease. It still is not that easy and we often have to resort to the deception of my SO going to the open house alone to check things out. But back to my point. We live in an area considered white right now. Nice, it is NOT. On the east coast a predominantly white area is usually very attractive, very safe and very desirable. In the mid-west and on the west coast (I don't know about the south) plenty of white areas are rundown (sketchy) with a propensity towards property crime and vandalism. Moderately well to do blacks (and some hispanics) will often live in areas like this vs the totally unlivable black areas.
H
Not all, but many Blacks move to predominantly White areas. And I'm well aware that there are some not-so-nice White areas in America. I've been to some. I live in the South and there are some sketchy predominantly White areas.
What I mean by "White areas" are places where Whites make up the majority of the population. It doesn't have to be 90%.
What I'm saying is in response to someone say "everyone wants to live with their own kind". Many Blacks are moving to places where there are very few Blacks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_in_dc
(1) Schools. In the 1970s, whites would be bussed to schools other than their neighborhood schools, so they fled to the suburbs to avoid busing.
(2) Shopping Malls and Highways. Again, in the 1960s and 1970s, shopping malls and highways meant whites no longer had to live near downtown to shop or work.
(3) Taxes and Services. Whites saw their property values drop and their property taxes increase to pay for additional social and government services such as housing and especially education for children of the poor, while they had to spend money sending their children to private schools. Whites were predominately the property owners and paid the majority of taxes.
(4) Fear. Whites are afraid to live around people who their ancestors once subjugated. When blacks become the majority, will they be prejudiced against whites? How about Asians? Maybe no one likes to be a minority, not even whites.
(5) Language. Earlier immigrants spoke English by second generation. It's annoying for most white English speaking people to be around people who don't or won't speak English.
I think you nailed it.
As a Jew, another reason is the availability of synagogues. Not only the one I belong to for worship, but others for specialized programs and speakers. In the Bronx, which went from partly Jewish to almost all Hispanic and black, synagogues closed or "merged" into distant suburban ones. The mergers were not really for the members, but to preserve burial rights and the precious Torah scrolls.
But returning to flight, Jews generally like to live in an area that is 10% or more Jewish, in order to support religious facilities, schools and burial places that they need.
In the present day. I think that in some situations, it's caused by minorities moving into an area, other times it caused by social changes, much of the time is motivated by some other fear. It's a variety of things nowadays that cause "white" or "middle" class flight. Unfortunately, much of the time they are caused by unjust fears, and the people leave the area, causing a vacuum leading to lower property values, which unless it's controlled in the right way, will usually lead to other issues. I believe that there is a tipping point between assumptions and reality, where for a while, the area isn't actually declining but some people just assume it is because a group of people they are uncomfortable with starts moving in, then a lot of them will leave, and then property values start to decrease due to people moving away, then other issues start occurring, and then it turns into reality, and the areas start becoming actually unsafe and "bad". Again, this isn't true in all scenarios. The world isn't black and white, there are different situations for different areas.
What I will say though, is that historical, white-flight was caused by residents of another race moving into an area, it just took one family and soon the entire neighborhood would be gone. This was true for most areas up until the late 1970s. There were laws and housing covenants that said blacks people couldnt live in one neighborhood or another. There were sundown towns, in Cicero, IL, in the late 50s, there was a massive riot when a black family moved into a apartment building, the rioters ended up destroying the apartment building. And I will say this, there are still plenty of people that were raised in those areas during that time-period, and some of those thoughts or way of thinking can be passed down generation to generation. I have seen things like people saying an area is bad or "ghetto", even tough the neighborhood or town was perfectly fine. Much of the time, those areas would be minority majority, and I've heard people imply that ALL minority majority areas were bad or "Ghetto." Of course that goes both ways though, because think about much of Rural America is white and poor, rundown and all of the issues that come with that much of the time.
One thing about busing though. I know this is going to be controversially. it was actually one of the few government policies from the 60s-70s that actually worked. There are studies that show, at least for minority students, that if they were bussed, they trended to have better prospects later in life. When bussing started back in the early 1970s, there was something like a 40 point gap in test grades between black and whites. In the late 1980s, which was apparently the height of bussing, test grade gaps, had fallen to about 15-20 points. There is a extremely interesting podcast on the series, This American Life, where it also talks about how a Law in Missouri unintentionally had busing, and it shows how it turned out.
Last edited by Northeasterner1970; 01-20-2017 at 09:45 PM..
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