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Rape is about VIOLENCE, period. We live in a world where 2 yr olds are molested because the molester needs to feel that power over someone weaker. Maybe she wasn't careful enough, since we're blaming the victim & both rape and molestation is about violence and power. What about the babies & children abused by family members? I guess they weren't careful enough. If you don't know that it's rape, etc is about power & violence, you aren't very educated. Did your friends that were dry humping bleed? I doubt it, I'm going to assume they were neither abused nor raped.
And since rape is about violence, people who can protect themselves and exercise caution should do so. Never once did I suggest that a 2-year-old can have any responsibility for being raped or violated.
Notice how some women on this thread agree, that women do carry responsibility for protecting themselves assuming they are of an age where they are capable of being in any way responsible for their own protection.
While I agree that women should take safety precautions, I would never say to a rape victim's face that "she deserved it". No one is entitled to take something just because they can see it. Rape is about entitlement to people's bodies, particularly women's bodies.
I don't drink alcohol mainly because I hate the taste, but the fear of rape definitely factors into my decision.
I normally wear long/mid sleeved shirts and loose trousers for comfort, but if I wore shorts/skirts/dresses, that still wouldn't give permission for men to invade my body. I live in Australia and the dress code is extremely liberal. In summer, most Australian women and girls wear shorts, singlets, skirts and dresses. This is considered completely normal, but to a Middle Eastern man, Australian women are dressed like wh*res. Does that give him the right to rape us?
So I came across the story of the boy who was violated at soccer camp with a broomstick.
I guess some of you think that he is to blame for attending soccer camp. I mean, they do wear short shorts and sleep in the same room at night...right?
I think some of you might be justifying your own behavior in the past with women/girls. Grow up and see that rape is not the victims fault. Your attitude allows males to justify raping girls they think are "asking for it" or "loose".
So I came across the story of the boy who was violated at soccer camp with a broomstick.
I guess some of you think that he is to blame for attending soccer camp. I mean, they do wear short shorts and sleep in the same room at night...right?
I think some of you might be justifying your own behavior in the past with women/girls. Grow up and see that rape is not the victims fault. Your attitude allows males to justify raping girls they think are "asking for it" or "loose".
You are absolutely right! Far more encouragement is provided to rapists by those commenting that imply that women not covered head to toe and that have the audacity to go out somewhere after the sun goes down are basically fair game.
They ought to be ashamed for saying these things, but will likely reply with more rationalizations. For those making such comments, your opinion would certainly change if rape were to happen to your daughter, wife, sister or girlfriend. When it happens to a stranger, it is a different story for those that encourage the rapists out there.
Ok, here is one for debate: When does "persistence" end and rape begin ? Here is why I ask. Every guy who grew up in the 50's and 60's (just to pick a period in time.........but probably other periods in time too) knows that back then girls were expected to say "no" and to put up some protest about going further in lovemaking. I can't tell you how many young girls I dated back then would say " I can't do this" but if you were persistent and kept up the lovemaking, sooner or later you might score. It was the game every young couple played because of the way sex was viewed back then......i.e, nice girls didn't have it.
That was then. This is now. Times have changed for the better. What was the reality back then is not relevant now. Those attitudes belong to another time and generation. The current generations are pretty much oblivious to that mentality, there's not much crossover, except in the vestiges of a certain mythology. "NO" now actually does mean "no". That's all boys/men need to know, and internalize.
The only way the victim is to blame is if we follow a strict "might makes right" code of "law," in which case were worst than animals. The fact that anyone in this once great - now dying - nation thinks that the victim of a rape is in ANY WAY partly to blame is a sign as to how far this nation has fallen and how basic common sense and human decency are now fading attributes of humanity.
I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers by saying this but all you have to do to see my point is examine the situations these women were in at the time of rape.
A woman who is totally sober, in the privacy of her own home, who gets raped after a maniac breaks in through her locked door (or closed window) and threatens her life is not to blame in any way.
A woman who goes to a party where alcohol and/or drugs are being used with reckless abandon, gets totally hammered and passes out, and is violated while unconscious, is partly to blame for being raped. She could have left the party once discovering that intoxicants were abundant. She could have avoided consuming said intoxicants. Instead, she threw caution to the wind. If you do that, you're inviting trouble and anyone who invites trouble to that extent is partially to blame.
I had a friend who got raped at age 19. She met a gas station attendant, thought he was cute, gave him her number, and he called her. She met him at his house, alone. She knew nothing about the guy. He raped her then and there. Now how many mistakes can you find in this situation? 1) Meeting a guy she'd never conversed with, alone. She accepted a date. People usually go on dates alone. She didn't think to make it a double. There probably didn't seem anything wrong with that. 2) Meeting said guy at his house (terrain familiar to him but unfamiliar to her), rather than a public location. Not the best decision of course but she must have not thought it do be dangerous. Obviously he had put her at ease. 3) Going into his house with him rather than remaining outside. Really, at 19 you are going to think of that? 4) Not having a protective weapon with her... like a gun, a knife, or at least mace or pepper spray. Again, 19, who thinks like that?(Bear in mind, said friend was a rather promiscuous woman, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she had given him some clue that she was fast and loose. However, even if she didn't, those four aforementioned mistakes still hold.)
Whenever you see an article describing a rape, read it from the perspective of a concerned parent whose daughter got into that situation. How many mistakes would you say the female victim made? Most times you can find at least one critical mistake. Remember - criminals prefer victims who won't fight back. That means, for a rapist, get the girl by herself in terrain that's unfamiliar to her and remove her ability to fight back - either by getting her intoxicated or overwhelming her physically. If women avoided scenarios where there was a substantial chance that they could be raped, there'd be far fewer rapes.
Here's the point. Stop making the victim the criminal. If she was promiscuous, that was her choice and the men she chose to sleep with were her choice as well. That did not mean anyone had the right to force themselves on her. I don't care if she entered his house or not, that did not give him the right to have sex with her without her permission. Her alleged promiscuity had nothing to do with his raping her. If a thief steals from another thief, it still doesn't make the one who stole any less a thief. He can't say "It was okay to steal from him because he was a thief so I should get away with it."
On the subject of provocative clothing, what is considered provocative to one is not to others. I have actually had a man tell me he thought one-piece bathing suits were sexier than bikinis. A guy I knew told me anytime he saw a women wearing black tights under her skirt he got turned on. That included teenage girls in their school uniforms. More turn-ons: long hair, short hair, stilettos, flats, oversize sweaters and tight sweaters. You get the picture, opposites. There is no telling what is going to be a turn-on and for whom. If a woman is going to try to dress modestly at all times in order to be a turnoff, you bet it will be a turnon for someone out there.
I just don't get this "she asked for it" so-called reasoning. Unless someone literally does ask for it, it's a crime of rape pure and simple. The victim is not to blame. Women shouldn't have to be continually looking over their shoulder trying to determine whether or not they are behaving properly. Especially because there will always be someone who will blame them for not being vigilant enough. How about the men being vigilant for a change reading as to whether or not the woman really wants them? A woman has every right to get drunk and have a good time as much as a man and not have to suffer the extra consequences of having him think that gives him license to take advantage of her.
To everyone who has posted on this thread about a woman's right to act, dress, or speak in whatever way she pleases, can you please answer this one question:
Would you encourage your daughter or best friend to NOT take common sense precautions for their own safety?
We don't live in a utopia. We live here, in a world where there are lot of twisted, sick, downright evil people. Like I said before, it's all about minimizing risk. I'm sad that this seems to get lost in the discussion.
To everyone who has posted on this thread about a woman's right to act, dress, or speak in whatever way she pleases, can you please answer this one question:
Would you encourage your daughter or best friend to NOT take common sense precautions for their own safety?
We don't live in a utopia. We live here, in a world where there are lot of twisted, sick, downright evil people. Like I said before, it's all about minimizing risk. I'm sad that this seems to get lost in the discussion.
Again, what is provocative? What is provocative to one person is nothing to another. You cannot tell someone what they should wear to keep them safe. There is no such thing.
As anyone will tell you, rape is a show of force over women more than a sexual act. A woman can be wearing a caftan and still be a turn on for some men. A sick, twisted, evil man is going to attack a woman no matter what she is wearing. Anyone who thinks differently is living in a Utopian world and needs to face reality. The clothing issue is simply an excuse they will use to blame the victim and those who also use this this excuse are as bad as they are because they are supporting them. You are justifying their actions along with them.
A woman has every right to act, speak or dress the way she pleases. Maybe if the punishment for those would deprive her of those rights were greater, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
A long time ago when Golda Meir was the Prime Minister of Israel, her response to the suggestion of a curfew for women during an upsurge of attacks on them in one city was something of this nature. "Why punish the women by locking them in, they are not criminals. It is not fair to punish the victims. Let's do more to catch the criminals who are committing the crimes against them instead."
Last edited by Minervah; 09-10-2013 at 01:11 AM..
Reason: added thought
That is probably one of the dumbest, most idiotic statement I have ever heard.
I am not saying this to you OP!
But to the judge and anyone who agrees with that statement.
One should have enough respect and empathy for another life to understand that it is not right.....and I do not care what the circumstances were.
Sometimes I wish the gender rolls were reversed and we men would have to be on the other side of this discussion.
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