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The law is very clear that a drunk woman raped in a frat house is not partly responsible. The rapist is responsible.
The law is equally clear that a driver carjacked in a bad neighborhood is not responsible. The carjacker is responsible.
Is there a confusion for you about the differences between legally responsible for committing a crime such as rape or carjacking, and legally defending oneself against a crime?
Even though you are bringing these two cases to prove the consistency of the law, it's really not all that consistent.
The driver of a car who found himself in a bad neighborhood could have done it by mistake, or didn't have any other choices; with another words, he had no control over the circumstances when his/her car was carjacked.
A woman who drinks in a frat house on another hand, definitely has a control over the circumstances.
She is choosing to be in a frat house AND to drink there.
That's why there is a law that tends to protect the weakest, and then there is a common sense.
And the common sense is telling you that you don't go to "romantic places" alone with a man and don't take a chance of being raped, or that you don't get drunk in a frat house and don't run a risk to be raped. So woman is obviously partially to blame when raped under certain circumstances not according to the law, ( because as I've said the law is set to protect the weak,) but according to common sense.
I am not saying that women don't need to be careful, but they are not to BLAME if they are raped or assaulted. It is ridiculous to use that word. It's like you are saying it is not that bad that someone was assaulted because they put themselves in a position to be raped.
I think those darned frat parties should be illegal if every woman who goes there is in danger of being raped. I think you should write your congressperson. jk (I think you malign all the nice guys who are in frats.)
It's like when people lynched black guys for dating a white woman. They were to "blame" for dating someone they shouldn't.
I stress that women should look out for themselves and be careful, but rape is not about sex it's about power.
Maybe it begins with a practical "street smarts" education, for both boys and girls, in high school or earlier. Common sense is a learned thing, it is not natural, and the groundwork for the same should not be left to the University of Life. Things like the physical and legal dangers of going to or holding wild "parties", going with a stranger to some motel room "just to talk", cruising around neighborhoods known for problems "just for fun", teens and chat rooms, hitching rides or picking up hitchers, the buddy system for safety, all the usual stuff.
No one is responsible for unexpected crimes that happen to them, but there is a case to be made where actions by an individual, intentional or otherwise, make the odds of something bad happening much higher.
Yes, women are completely at fault when they are raped. Bunch of sex deprived, lascivious, Jezabels! All of them, just standing around with vaginas, begging for relief from their hormones and drive to reproduce.
This is the way men who rape women think. Does it make any type of logic at all?
I often wonder about a society where women would feel safe, any where, any time. And feel safe to leave open a bedroom Window on a hot night. My back door is open now, to catch a breeze, I wonder if a man will walk in, thinking that is an invitation for sex? I suppose I better go shut it, and lock myself in...
This is what it boils down to. Since you have no way of knowing what might turn a guy on and be an invitation, you need to stay behind closed and locked doors and windows. You'll need to work from home and have all supplies delivered but do not go to the door to accept your supplies because of the chance that the way you act or dress may be interpreted to be an invitation for sex. Also, make sure you pick up all items from your yard that someone might take because that will be your fault because you know there are thieves out there. If I remember right, women in cultures who totally cover themselves and don't even make eye contact are also raped so, you see, you just can't leave the house. Keep the shades down too because they will know what you want and they know when you say "no" that you really mean "yes".
And, "real" men don't rape or feel that women are partly responsible when they raped. I am sure a lot of women and men have seen which ever sex they are attracted to and would like to have sex with them but realize that they would not have forced it. With same sex attraction, being in the showers/locker rooms together, I guess the rape would definitely be OK there because, well, with flaunting it, isn't it OK and won't be the rapists fault?
Even though you are bringing these two cases to prove the consistency of the law, it's really not all that consistent.
The driver of a car who found himself in a bad neighborhood could have done it by mistake, or didn't have any other choices; with another words, he had no control over the circumstances when his/her car was carjacked.
A woman who drinks in a frat house on another hand, definitely has a control over the circumstances.
She is choosing to be in a frat house AND to drink there.
That's why there is a law that tends to protect the weakest, and then there is a common sense.
And the common sense is telling you that you don't go to "romantic places" alone with a man and don't take a chance of being raped, or that you don't get drunk in a frat house and don't run a risk to be raped. So woman is obviously partially to blame when raped under certain circumstances not according to the law, ( because as I've said the law is set to protect the weak,) but according to common sense.
This is exactly the type of thinking that needs to be eradicated. Unfortunately, it never will. As long as it prevails, women will never be free citizens in this or any other country. Attending a frat party or any other party does not give an man license to rape them.
We look at the women in Middle Eastern countries swathed in dark clothing from head to toe, locked behind walls, unable to obtain an education. Even in the so-called "enlightened" areas of the more progressive arab cities we shake our heads when we see reports of foreign women walking into a bar for a quiet drink alone followed to their rooms and raped because they did not have male escorts to protect them. These women had been unaware that in those countries a women no matter is considered to be "just asking for it" if she goes to a bar or most any other place by herself.
So now tell me, how are we in this so-called enlighten, forward country of ours better than this when someone can still give advice base on the fact that women here must stay away from certain places where men can freely go because she is in danger of being raped? Tell me what is the difference because I honestly do not understand. Freedom to go to public or even private places as long as they are not in criminal areas should be a right for everyone.
At what location does a woman's freedom to be at end? How many drinks is she allowed to have? Where is this mentality coming from men that if she is at a party trying to enjoy herself as they are they she is easy prey? Do men consider women as prey animals walking into a trap when they walk into a frat party? Because women consider themselves to be people walking into the party to drink and have a good time just like men.
To me it's all about freedom. President Obama gave a nice little speech about how a black man still in this country cannot go everywhere due to his race. With all due respect to the President and his race, he should try being a woman for awhile. He would find even more restrictions on his freedom to move around. And it's all about the mentality that there are some places in which it's "okay" to attack women because its a frat party or a lonely place or a man's home etc.
Even though you are bringing these two cases to prove the consistency of the law, it's really not all that consistent.
The driver of a car who found himself in a bad neighborhood could have done it by mistake, or didn't have any other choices; with another words, he had no control over the circumstances when his/her car was carjacked.
A woman who drinks in a frat house on another hand, definitely has a control over the circumstances.
She is choosing to be in a frat house AND to drink there.
That's why there is a law that tends to protect the weakest, and then there is a common sense.
And the common sense is telling you that you don't go to "romantic places" alone with a man and don't take a chance of being raped, or that you don't get drunk in a frat house and don't run a risk to be raped. So woman is obviously partially to blame when raped under certain circumstances not according to the law, ( because as I've said the law is set to protect the weak,) but according to common sense.
So are you saying that women need to be aware that there's certain places that they can be raped and not escape blame?..do you really think that's fair?...do you think that if a young man passed out in one of these places and he was raped, he also is to blame. Is a womens safety and protection only contingent on how she behaves and dresses?
I understand that some women do allow themselves to be in a very vulnerable situation, but is that vulnerability really their fault?.is it even a fault?..and are they then not "the weakest" that you speak of, and therefor worthy of the laws protection?...It's not EVER the womans fault that a man (usually stronger) would force himself on her...a man who does that would do it whether she was drunk, or not...it's just easier for him when she is. Her only mistake would be that she trusted him to act honorably.
Last edited by purehuman; 09-11-2013 at 01:47 PM..
There is an old story, sort of King Solomon courts.
Let's say, it is King Solomon court day.
A woman shows up and says - man such and such raped me, great King, punish him.
King sends guards and they turn that man in. Man is asked - did you rape that woman?
Man responds - no, Your Majesty, we had consensual sex. She then asked me for a hefty gift, I refused, she said - I'll regret that refusal. Here I am now, falsly accused.
King asks the woman - did it go the way, he describes it? No, says woman, he raped me and is lying.
Approach me, says King.
He gives woman a thread, and then holds a needle, ear up, between his thumb and index fingers.
Woman, say King, thread that needle, and I'll punish your rapist.
Woman, laughing at this task and feeling quick victory approaching, moves thread into the needle ear. But, same moment, King twists needle ever so slightly between the fingers. And every time, woman will try to drive thread through the ear, he will do same, failing her every time.
She finally loses her patience and yells - King, will you please stop twisting that needle?
Woman, responds wise King, would you have not stayed still, no man in the world would have been able to rape you..
I rest my case.
You are full of crap. I was raped in my own home about 20 years ago. He was someone I knew. I DIDN'T stay still I fought like hell but you know what? I am 5'2 and at the time was 120lbs. He was 6'4 and about 100lbs heavier. He overpowered me. You are beyond ignorant to think your little story has any sort of truth to it. Men are usually bigger and stronger than women, and if the woman has a gun or knife pressed against her hell no she's not going to fight-and those women who were raped while unconscious (there was a story here not long ago where a hospital worker raped a woman who was in a coma!) did not have the chance to fight. Seriously, educate yourself before posting such nonsense.
That was my opinion that I'd put partial blame - never mentioned the law and never said they are to be punished for it. Every day people make decisions that help or hurt themselves. Why would they be excused if they make an un-wise choice just because they end up being an actual victim?
And self-defense doesn't yet come into play at the point where a person chooses to do something (or not). There is no confusion on my part.
What's the first thing you say when kids get hurt doing something they shouldn't have been doing? They shouldn't have done it in the first place. I'd partially blame the kids.
As the post above me says, USE GOOD JUDGMENT. Walking down the street completely naked? Come on - use your head.
My rape was in no way my fault. Period. I was in my own home with a man I had worked with for over a year and thought was a friend. It was after work, and I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. We worked in a factory and it was a hot day in June so I was sweaty and dirty. I was in no way seductive or slutty. The only person responsible was my rapist, who made the conscious decision to tackle me to the floor and rape me, and ignore my demands that he stop, my attempts to fight him off, and my constantly repeating the word "NO!" NO MEANS NO. End of story.
This is exactly the type of thinking that needs to be eradicated.
You mean common sense? Why, I think it should stay, although I understand that some people would like to get read of it completely.
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Unfortunately, it never will. As long as it prevails, women will never be free citizens in this or any other country.
You mean to make men play by women's rule? I don't see it happening any time soon.
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Attending a frat party or any other party does not give an man license to rape them.
No, but they can rape without asking for any license.
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We look at the women in Middle Eastern countries swathed in dark clothing from head to toe, locked behind walls, unable to obtain an education. Even in the so-called "enlightened" areas of the more progressive arab cities we shake our heads when we see reports of foreign women walking into a bar for a quiet drink alone followed to their rooms and raped because they did not have male escorts to protect them.
Yes, so what are you going to do about it?
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So now tell me, how are we in this so-called enlighten, forward country of ours better than this when someone can still give advice base on the fact that women here must stay away from certain places where men can freely go because she is in danger of being raped?
How is it better? Because in this enlighten country women are protected by the law, where in the Middle Eastern countries they are not. So if you have been raped, the law is on your side, if something like this happen in the Middle Eastern country - good luck with that.
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At what location does a woman's freedom to be at end? How many drinks is she allowed to have? Where is this mentality coming from men that if she is at a party trying to enjoy herself as they are they she is easy prey? Do men consider women as prey animals walking into a trap when they walk into a frat party?
It all depends. Consider men to be a force of nature, from the sunniest weather to the deadly storms. And as with nature, you shouldn't expect it to be always sunny, therefore it makes sense to carry umbrella in your trunk and to stay home during the hurricanes. Then, of course, there are always women who like to challenge nature, who like to swim with sharks, to climb the mountains and what's not, and in general to live on the edge, thinking that they can control the nature. They are entitled to that of course, it's just there is no guarantee that they'll be always in control.
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Because women consider themselves to be people walking into the party to drink and have a good time just like men.
But they are not the same thing as men, you see.
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To me it's all about freedom. President Obama gave a nice little speech about how a black man still in this country cannot go everywhere due to his race. With all due respect to the President and his race, he should try being a woman for awhile. He would find even more restrictions on his freedom to move around. And it's all about the mentality that there are some places in which it's "okay" to attack women because its a frat party or a lonely place or a man's home etc.
You mean freedom to control men in such manner that you'd always feel safe and comfortable to do whatever you wish and to go wherever you want? But it's not going to happen, in the same manner as no one is ever going to feel completely safe from burglaries, theft, treasons and the rest. The world is imperfect and so are men, so you'll never know who is a predator lurking in the corner of that party you are planning to attend, or which shark swam today into familiar waters. Therefore keep such possibilities in mind and make wise decisions.
You mean common sense? Why, I think it should stay, although I understand that some people would like to get read of it completely.
You mean to make men play by women's rule? I don't see it happening any time soon.
No, but they can rape without asking for any license.
Yes, so what are you going to do about it?
How is it better? Because in this enlighten country women are protected by the law, where in the Middle Eastern countries they are not. So if you have been raped, the law is on your side, if something like this happen in the Middle Eastern country - good luck with that.
It all depends. Consider men to be a force of nature, from the sunniest weather to the deadly storms. And as with nature, you shouldn't expect it to be always sunny, therefore it makes sense to carry umbrella in your trunk and to stay home during the hurricanes. Then, of course, there are always women who like to challenge nature, who like to swim with sharks, to climb the mountains and what's not, and in general to live on the edge, thinking that they can control the nature. They are entitled to that of course, it's just there is no guarantee that they'll be always in control.
But they are not the same thing as men, you see.
You mean freedom to control men in such manner that you'd always feel safe and comfortable to do whatever you wish and to go wherever you want? But it's not going to happen, in the same manner as no one is ever going to feel completely safe from burglaries, theft, treasons and the rest. The world is imperfect and so are men, so you'll never know who is a predator lurking in the corner of that party you are planning to attend, or which shark swam today into familiar waters. Therefore keep such possibilities in mind and make wise decisions.
To me, this all boils down to men refusing to take responsibility for their actions. To add to this, the law may be on a woman's side in theory but in practice, many women are afraid to report rape because they then must go on trial to prove that they did not provoke the rape. That is one crime in which the victim's accusations are believed less than any other and the interrogation is greater.
Also, even when the proof is there, she might still be ostracized for trying to bring her attackers to justice. The young woman in Ohio who was brave enough to take her attackers to court was raked over the coals in Social Media, the Internet and even by her friends because in bringing them to court she was being accused of risking of saddling those poor young college men with criminal records for the rest of their lives. But they were criminals who performed criminal acts so the records were deserved. I am sure they weren't thinking of that while they were abusing her while she was unconscious. Yet it is this convoluted thinking that cause so many to turn on the victims when they try to seek justice.
That's why I am saying that this is unacceptable. I have never said that women should have the freedom to control men. That's a very odd concept. Perhaps being a man you would see things that way. I have been saying all along that men should be controlling themselves so that won't see opportunities to take advantage of women when those opportunities do not exist.
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