Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No....I sure didn't.....especially since Obamacare doesn't do anything to reduce the cost of healthcare, but it does do many things to increase the cost of healthcare.
If you believe it does, then cite those sections of the PPACA that support your claim...after all, this is a debate, right?
And as one poster put it...
No, it wasn't designed to do that....
"The expansion of health insurance increases health care cost per capita as people demand more health care when they are better insured. Health insurance has expanded in two ways: (1) by covering an increasing share of the population and (2) by covering each person more completely."
[underlined and bold emphasis mine]
Source: GAO-13-281 PPACA and the Long-Term Fiscal Outlook, January 2013; Page 34
1] Technology up to 65%
2] Consumer Demand up to 36% 3] Expanding Health Benefits or Insuring more people up to 13%
4] Healthcare Price Inflation up to 19% (caused by Consumer Demand and insuring more people)
5] Administrative Costs up to 13% (caused by Technology, Consumer Demand and Regulations)
6] Aging/Elderly up to 7%
Source: United States Government General Accounting Office GAO-13-281 PPACA and the Long-Term Fiscal Outlook, January 2013 pp 31-36
Pretty sad when your own government stomps down your claim.
Yes, there is an "instant fix" but in order to know what it is, you have to learn and understand how your healthcare system evolved.
Repealing that part of the 1954 IRS Tax Code (incorporated in the 1986 IRS Tax Code) that replaces health insurance with a fee-for-service plan would be a start...and its effects....positive....would be instant.
For a complete fix, only the States have the power and authority to do that...and it would start by destroying the hospital monopolies you love.
Can you explain why you hate oil monopolies, but love healthcare monopolies?
Monopolies are either good, or they are bad, but they cannot be both at the same time.
Correct. The PPACA abolishes both annual limits and life-time limits.
So, how much does "Unlimited" cost?
Fixing....
Mircea
You'll have to explain to me why you feel that hospitals have a monopoly on healthcare.
Hell, the only time I go to the hospital if its emergent or I need to stay overnight for something.
And.. there are several to choose from.
So I don't quite understand why you constantly refer to hospitals as "monopolies"..
We need more doctors and they have to learn to live on less money. Period.
Cloning technology has advanced to the point that any day now, you'll be able to clone doctors and other medical personnel and keep them as your personal retainers or slaves.
Should be pretty cheap...you can feed your doctor slaves table scraps or road-kill or whatever you happen to have handy lying about that might be edible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgordeeva
I never said that they should work for free. In Europe, there is socialist healthcare and they still get paid generous salaries. They get paid through people's taxes. But people in America will never agree to a completely national system because there is too much greed.
Yes, and the All-Knowing All-Wise kgordeeva is the Arbiter Of All That Is Fair & Just, right?
Americans might be inclined to agree to a "completely national system" just as soon as the European Union has a "completely national system."
I'm guessing people have difficulty with this concept...
Germany is to the European Union as California is to the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
It will. We'll have no choice.
Still refuse to read the Supreme Court's opinion on healthcare as intra-State Commerce, no?
Kind of hard to debate things if people intend to ignore reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle
Actually, the OP's idea isn't completely outrageous.
Technically and legally speaking.....you're there.
You got rid of health insurance in 1954 with a change in the IRS Tax Code lobbied by the American Hospital Association.
No American with a plan sponsored by an employer has had insurance since 1954.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u
Anyway,aren't you the one that claims people can "just walk in the hospital" and receive healthcare?
Actually you are the one who keeps making that claim, because you don't understand EMTALA and you refuse to read any of the case law related to it that proves quite clearly that people cannot use the ER as some kind of surrogate healthcare provider.
I found a plan here in PA that has a $297/month premium, no deductible for in network. Max out of pocket I believe was around $6,000 or so (this is for individual).
Where you are getting a $30K number, I'm not sure. Without subsidies the cost to me woudl be approx $3500 (slightly more)
copays for my medication is $50/month - so about $600/year.. up to $4100
My other supplies I'd have to pay I believe 40% as they are considered durable medical equipment which would be another $400.
So.. for the most party my out of pocket expenses a year for medical without any subsidies would be $5,000
Of course, somemone making $20,000 would qualify for subsidies. If they are a family making that little, they woud qualify for medicaid.
This is for the platinum level insurance in my state. I am choosing the least expensive out of the platinum options (which I believe there were 3).
As someone with a pre-existing condition that went without insurance until Obamacare (when they put in place a bridge plan until 2014) I can tell you that the cost of insurnace to gain access is far better than going without.
I don't really get the indignation. For one, the only way anyone reaches $30K is if they have to use the insurance to the max (if indeed there is a $30K max out of pocket on any plan.. many are well below that).
Even if there is a copay for a large hospital stay, once you reach the max out of pocket you are not liable for the remainder and the insurance is.
So, $30K out of pocket every year would be in an extremely dire situation and sure as hell beats having bills that equal a couple hundred thousand.
Out of pocket cost, is for what the insurance COVERS. There are still some procedures, tests, medications etc that insurance does not cover. I know, I have been there......
You can make payments. I believe hospitals are willing to work with you if you at least make an effort to pay something. They might even be willing to cut some of the costs.
Actually, they will. They'll ruin your credit for you, of course, but in the end they will take what you will pay...just as they do with insurance companies.
No, health insurance companies don't cause the high rates of medical cost because health insurance companies never pay what the hospitals charge. They pay a third, maybe half of it. That's because insurance companies always do their homework--the insurance game is a numbers game after all. Insurance companies always have a very good idea of what anything really costs....
...which the hospitals don't.
A couple of years ago, a Chicago news station "shopped" the vicinity hospitals for a simple appendectomy. They found prices ranging from $1,500 to $150,000--literally 100 times the difference--for exactly the same service in a single metropolitan area.
When my mother had brain surgery after an auto accident, they had to leave off the section of skull they'd removed (they tucked it into her abdomen for safe keeping). To protect the soft spot, they put a leather helmet on her, similar to the old style leather football helmets of 100 years ago. It was basically thick harness leather with a felt lining.
When I saw the bill--they had charged BC/BS two thousand dollars for that helmet.
Wait, did I mention that the helmet had a "Made in Korea" label inside? Now, I've been to South Korea, and I've even bought leather goods in South Korea. I can guarantee you that helmet did not cost $2000 to make in Korea and import to the US. Perhaps as much as $50, wholesale.
Moreover, since we were in Oklahoma, I took a picture of that helmet to a local livery shop and asked them how much they'd charge to make one for me. They estimated $500. So the same device even custom-made right locally there in good old USA would have cost only 25% as much.
And we already know about $3.00 Tylenol tablets.
Hospitals are probably the only major businesses that don't have a clue what their costs are and what they should be charging. Seriously, not a clue. They're just throwing prices out there and hoping some will stick.
So if you notice your bills paid by insurance companies--which always have a clue--you see that they never pay what the hospital charges.
Many of us don't agree that a free market is the best approach for achieving the desired result of a better, healthier life for Americans.
That is probably due to the fact that so many bigoted haters are hell-bent on intentionally misrepresenting the Free Market healthcare argument.
It worked for well for 7 years.....from 1926-1933.
In spite of Market interference by the American Hospital Association, it continued to work fine for another 6 years from 1933 to 1939, until the American Hospital Association acting as an agent of Socialism and introduced Soviet-style Command Economics to the healthcare system, creating the mess you have now.
Why don't you explain how you view Free Market healthcare, so that others may correct the many grotesque misconceptions you hold thanks to the people who continually lie about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE
We allready cut costs for the insurance companies.
Uh-huh....explain how this....
The law restricts and phases out the annual dollar limits that all job-related plans, and individual health insurance plans issued after March 23, 2010, can put on most covered health benefits. Specifically, the law says that none of these plans can set an annual dollar limit lower than:
Under the law, lifetime limits on most benefits are prohibited in any health plan or insurance policy issued or renewed on or after September 23, 2010.
No annual dollar limits are allowed on most covered benefits beginning January 1, 2014.
Screw insurance. I have a discount dental plan (not insurance) which costs $125 a year for family and I paid $3,000 for an entire 6 tooth front upper bridge with 2 teeth crowns which attach it. They won't limit you to number of root canals or crowns per year which INSURANCE did.
Insurance is a for profit scam.
Insurance is for profit, of course, but it's not a scam...certainly not just because it's for-profit.
Insurance is not a public service, it's a business. You bet them you're going to have a catastrophe, and they bet you that you won't. Each month they win the bet, you have to pay up. If you win, they pay up. Of course, they have calculated the odds very closely and really only wager on pretty sure bets.
But it's still worth it to have the insurance, because sometimes you win the bet, and it's really bad when that happens.
The problem in the health insurance field is that insurance is a bad model. Everyone goes to the hospital sooner or later. Does your homeowner's or auto insurance cover routine maintenance? Of course not--but health insurance does. So instead of insuring against catastrophes (which only happen once or twice in the typical person's life), they are attempting to insure routine maintenance and catastrophes.
Bad model, and it shows.
The Affordable Care act attempts to do the same thing with health insurance that states already do with auto insurance: Require it for everyone. That would force low-risk people into the system and reduce insurance costs for the high-risk people the insurance companies now have to cover.
It would also end what is really a scam--people who don't pay for the "insurance" they actually have.
In the USA, hospitals are not permitted to allow someone to die on their front steps because the person can't pay. I know a woman in her thirties who has never had health insurance, never had much of a job. Last December, she went into the emergency room and was eventually diagnosed with leukemia. She's just recently completed her full treatment--bone marrow transplant, chemotherapy, everything--more than half a million dollars of treatment. The hospital will get maybe $1000 out of her.
That's the "insurance" every person in the US has. And many are not paying for it.
In the USA, hospitals are not permitted to allow someone to die on their front steps because the person can't pay. I know a woman in her thirties who has never had health insurance, never had much of a job. Last December, she went into the emergency room and was eventually diagnosed with leukemia. She's just recently completed her full treatment--bone marrow transplant, chemotherapy, everything--more than half a million dollars of treatment. The hospital will get maybe $1000 out of her.
That's the "insurance" every person in the US has. And many are not paying for it.
You'll have to explain to me why you feel that hospitals have a monopoly on healthcare.
Hell, the only time I go to the hospital if its emergent or I need to stay overnight for something.
And.. there are several to choose from.
So I don't quite understand why you constantly refer to hospitals as "monopolies"..
Too true. You have to practically be at death's door to be hospitalized these days. Very little health care is provided at hospitals, percentagwise. Most all of it is done in offices, health centers and such.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
