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Something people who wish to engage in this debate need to know is that "cancer" is a very heterogeneous disease, with different outcomes depending on the organ affected. 99% of those that develop prostate cancer are alive in 5 years; the 15-year survival rate is 93%. On the other hand, just 6% of 45-54 year olds who find themselves with a Glioblastoma tumor (the most common of primary brain cancers) statistically survive 5 years.
It would likely help to nationalize more cancer research right along with a lot of other basic research. Privately funded research is fine and dandy, but it will always be oriented to profit and technology rather than to the very different matters of discovery and science. It's the latter that tends to hit the mega-jackpots, but there's no way to show that to an accountant (or some hair-on-fire tax-cutter) before the fact. We are paying a price for letting basic research slide and thinking that corporations are doing all that needs to be done. That price is likely pretty high.
Something people who wish to engage in this debate need to know is that "cancer" is a very heterogeneous disease, with different outcomes depending on the organ affected. 99% of those that develop prostate cancer are alive in 5 years; the 15-year survival rate is 93%. On the other hand, just 6% of 45-54 year olds who find themselves with a Glioblastoma tumor (the most common of primary brain cancers) statistically survive 5 years.
But when you get right down to it, isn't ALL cancer just an overgrowth of cells? Oh yes, there are different types - squamous cell, basal cell, oat cell, but went it comes right down to it, isn't the underlying mechanism all the same?
But when you get right down to it, isn't ALL cancer just an overgrowth of cells? Oh yes, there are different types - squamous cell, basal cell, oat cell, but went it comes right down to it, isn't the underlying mechanism all the same?
20yrsinBranson
The trouble is how do you stop the cells that are overgrowing and not stop the cells that are supposed to be growing? Some cancer drugs use thus factor against the cancer (i.e. rapidly growing cells take in more of the toxic chemo drug than cells that are not). However this is a blunt tool. Also with toxic chemical or drugs some kinds of cells will take up more of the subtance than others(for all sorts of reasons) and you need the cancer cells to take up the toxin(i.e. One kind of chemo drug may be more effective on certain types of cancers than others.).
Another avenue of attack that there seems to be some work on is getting the Immune system to attack the malfunctioning cells. Normally the Immune system kills off cancerous cells before they become a problem but in the case of someone with cancer the immune system isn’t doing its job against these cells for some reason.
But when you get right down to it, isn't ALL cancer just an overgrowth of cells? Oh yes, there are different types - squamous cell, basal cell, oat cell, but went it comes right down to it, isn't the underlying mechanism all the same?
20yrsinBranson
Exactly and all the arguments against what you are saying... like the post immediately after yours continue to say" but.. but... but... But nothing. When, and if, we ever understand cell biology to the level of Him who made us... i.e. really have a clue as to what we really are, then what seems so impossible now, will be laughably simple to fix. I get that it is difficult now, impossible actually. It will either remain that way... and in that case we a majorly... you know. Or we will make the needed breakthroughs. There isn't any middle ground. The present "successes" are just blind luck. Allied Health takes credit for every cancer survivor whether they had anything to do with the outcome or not. They are rewarded handsomely for their efforts. They haven't a clue. Want to cure cancer? It's not that difficult. Invalidate every patent that exists for cancer treatment drugs and/or technology. Make them start all over. The existing tech and medicines can be cloned by anyone who wants to and sold for what the market will bear. There will be an overnight reduction in the costs of treating cancer of 1000%. The big players who want to aim higher for big profits will have to put cures or near cures on the market. It's not the best solution but its better than what we have now.
Because it's more profitable to look for a cure than to find one.
If a cure ever should be found, it'll be by some kid in his basement, not the big "cancer business" establishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by California831
Cancer is an industry. Trying to find an effective vaccine or treatment would harm that industry.
Are you kidding me? No way. The monopoly profit on a cancer vaccine or universal and simple cancer drug would be so great that any big pharma would poop in their shorts for the chance to get it. If it was herbal and grew in every yard? No problem - they would refine it and make it "new and improved". That is what they do. Cancer IS an industry, yes - but a "CURE" would be a new industry and I garontee big pharma would be frothing at the mouth if they believed they had it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
But when you get right down to it, isn't ALL cancer just an overgrowth of cells? Oh yes, there are different types - squamous cell, basal cell, oat cell, but went it comes right down to it, isn't the underlying mechanism all the same?
20yrsinBranson
Yes, there are some crude, basic, and simplistic similiarities. This is one reason stem cell research is believed to hold so much promise. But no, all cancer is not JUST a simple overgrowth of cells. No, the underlying mechanisms, behind the cancers, are not the same.
Cancer is part of nature. It is nature looking for new ways to do things. Nature is ALWAYS doing this. Always. Nature does this in deer, in elephants, in fish, in what-have-you. Always. Unless you are a rock, in which case I think you get a pass on cancer. When you get old enough, nature is more and more likely to hit you with some variation of this. Different stressors will increase that likelihood in different parts of the body. We are living longer - and thus we are more likely to experience cancer. We are also, due to the cultural history of medicine in the past 150 or so years, more inclined to fault medicine when it does not have a cure.
But pretty much anything we come into contact with can cause "cancer" in some circumstances. Why? Because, other than unadulterated H2O, pretty much everything can cause a batch of cells to get "funky" and start thinking out-of-the-box, cellwise.
I could do a bunch of research, and refute things point by point, or at least try to. And I think we'd be here all day and into tomorrow. I'm going to try another approach.
Think of a bicycle wheel, and a breaking wave. Both represent power, speed, and motion. Both do work, both are active - as a result of appied power. Wind, weather, and tides power the wave. A man (generically speaking, as it could be a woman) powers the bicycle wheel. Or maybe a trained bear. But the wave - comes from chaos - has no beginning, and no end. What it comes from it immediately goes back to - but you can't hold it in. A bicycle wheel is tightly defined - or it doesn't work. It is highly limited - or it doesn't work. It requires very specific, designed, tensions - or it doesn't work. It returns to where it was - and that spot is ALWAYS definable.
The bicycle wheel is like the idea that all cells are basically the same, and will respond to the same thing. This is a human convenience to attempt to communicate something of the complexity of the cell. But life is like the wave. It will find a way. To crest, to crash, to ultimately destroy your beachfront - or build it anew. We can predict what will usually happen, for a wave, and for life. But to think we can ever anticipate all the possible circumstances? Hubris.
Anytime I think of why there isn't a cure for this or that, I immediately get out my calculator and try to estimate how many jobs would be lost, how much unemployment, if the cure finally arrived.
And even if I came up with the cure for cancer, I'd immediately go into hiding somewhere, with an army of bodyguards to protect me from someone putting a contract out on my life, and then release my cure to the media!
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