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I'm not a slave and have never been a slave. Why should I feel insulted if someone refers to black people as blackies or the N word? I wasn't a slave, I've never met a slave and I never met my ancestors and I have no emotional attachment to racial epithets or slavery.
Because first they were enslaved, and later on for almost 200 years they had to endure non-stop discrimination. My folks endured nothing. They were white.
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Originally Posted by coffeendonuts
And you can't assume that just because I'm part black, my parent was born/raised in the US. If my black parent is from another part of the world, then they have little to no connection to slavery.
An insult is an insult. Regardless of history.
I haven't assumed anything about your background. I've merely discussed mine. Do you feel your background has something to do with this?
You're right. But discrimination can be carried out in many different ways. As a white person, not only have I never been called whitey, but it also wouldn't upset me since I've never had my ancestors enslaved.
I personally see it two ways. First, the ignorance of others does not bother me. If one were to address me by a racial slur today I would brush it off. Then again, today I'm much more experienced than I was at age 15. As a 15 year old it's a little harder to deal with.
On the other hand, even as an adult, I expect a certain amount of common decency. My threshold for if something bothers me or not does not necessarily include my ancestors and what they experienced. I'm not entirely sure how I'd react today if I were discriminated against today. I don't sit around worrying about these things. In all likelihood I would brush it off like I said already. But in the event it persisted, I would not shy away from confronting it.
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Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
They've always been free.
If this is the litmus test for you, that's great. It is not universal.
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Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
Why should that bother me? Explain to me why that would bother me, if you don't mind. I'm trying to wrap my head around why something like that should bug me. It's not even an insult. Let's seriously examine that.
I'm not even going to try to explain your thought process. You've already explained why it doesn't bother you, that's good enough.
Can minorities be racist? Of course. Are the effects as devastating as racism from the majority? Absolutely not. That's why racism from whites gets more scrutiny than racism from blacks-the former brand of racism has caused what could be considered Genocide, while the latter has caused maybe a couple dozen shootings in the ghetto. Both are bad, but one of these is worse than the other. (Hint: it's the Genocide)
Because first they were enslaved, and later on for almost 200 years they had to endure non-stop discrimination. My folks endured nothing. They were white.
I haven't assumed anything about your background. I've merely discussed mine. Do you feel your background has something to do with this?
You seem to think your background has something to do with your lack of offense at being called whitey, so why would my background not have something to do with whether or not I take offense to the N word or any other equivalent?
And whites were once enslaved. Not all whites are or were seen as equal. Even today among white nationalists, they'll tell you that only white people from certain parts of Europe are "white," the rest don't count. So perhaps your ancestors weren't enslaved, but how do you know that iknowftblls ancestors weren't?
In the U.S. as with anywhere this is a human issue, not a white issue. Case in point: I went to high school in a part of Colorado where the populations was a decided majority Hispanic. I was the target of assaults, near daily harrassments, my car vandalized, my Dad's place of business vandalized, etc. And what did I do to deserve such treatment? Simple: I had the audacity to be born white.
.
I find it very interesting that as people cite "racist" behavior by minorities against whites they almost always seem to confine their examples of such behavior to criminal acts.
Two issues.
1. The fact that minorities are usually confined to committing crimes to show their bias against whites shows how powerless they are. Whites can show their bias using very subtle forms of discrimination through their control over employment, housing, politics, etc.
2. Most criminal behavior is usually directed against fellow ethnics, and Hispanics aren't any exception. It is quite likely that the violence which you describe was also directed against other Hispanics.
Whether people chose to admit it or not minorities are rarely able to avoid being punished for displaying open bias as they lack control of institutions which enable them to disguise this behavior.
How ever people wish to define racism, unless it is backed by social, economic and/or political power it is without tremendous impact. If people behave like criminals, they will eventually be caught and punished.
You seem to think your background has something to do with your lack of offense at being called whitey, so why would my background not have something to do with whether or not I take offense to the N word or any other equivalent?
And whites were once enslaved. Not all whites are or were seen as equal. Even today among white nationalists, they'll tell you that only white people from certain parts of Europe are "white," the rest don't count. So perhaps your ancestors weren't enslaved, but how do you know that iknowftblls ancestors weren't?
Here, this is a great explanation of why:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Can minorities be racist? Of course. Are the effects as devastating as racism from the majority? Absolutely not. That's why racism from whites gets more scrutiny than racism from blacks-the former brand of racism has caused what could be considered Genocide, while the latter has caused maybe a couple dozen shootings in the ghetto. Both are bad, but one of these is worse than the other. (Hint: it's the Genocide)
As to your suggestion of white slavery? Seriously? You're even going to going there?
Can minorities be racist? Of course. Are the effects as devastating as racism from the majority? Absolutely not. That's why racism from whites gets more scrutiny than racism from blacks-the former brand of racism has caused what could be considered Genocide, while the latter has caused maybe a couple dozen shootings in the ghetto. Both are bad, but one of these is worse than the other. (Hint: it's the Genocide)
And this encompasses ANY definition of racism. I find it hilarious when people make systematic discrimination by whites against minorities, especially blacks, through control over employment, housing, politics, etc., equivalent to criminal acts committed against whites by non whites. Especially as the same criminals are most likely committing the same acts against non whites.
Whites are gentrifying many inner city neighborhoods populated by non whites. The latter, alarmed at being forced to leave areas where they have lived all their lives for the unknown where they lack social networks, are clearly not happy. Obviously there is little that these people can do to stop gentrification, and it is clear that there is little violence being directed against these newly arrived whites, as they wouldn't move into places which they considered to be dangerous. Given that BedStuy is still considered dangerous and yet hordes of whites are moving in, its clear that most of the crime is black on black.
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Can minorities be racist? Of course. Are the effects as devastating as racism from the majority? Absolutely not. That's why racism from whites gets more scrutiny than racism from blacks-the former brand of racism has caused what could be considered Genocide, while the latter has caused maybe a couple dozen shootings in the ghetto. Both are bad, but one of these is worse than the other. (Hint: it's the Genocide)
As to your suggestion of white slavery? Seriously? You're even going to going there?
But her answer is "yes" minorities can be racist. So what's your point? Racism isn't a which is worse game. If that's how we're going to view it, then no wonder racism still exists.
Perhaps until we can acknowledge that it comes from all aspects of life, then society can progress. Heck, there's even racism and colorism within the black, Hispanic/Latin and Asian communities and if you're truly Hispanic as you say you are, then you can acknowledge the colorism within the Hispanic communities.
If minorities can actively discriminate or show hatred towards people of their own kind based on skin color, hair type, features then what makes you think a minority cannot do the same towards a white person. Remember, not all white people are powerful. The average white guy walking down the street isn't exactly a Koch brother. He holds little to no power with very little money (and as you can see by some threads on CD money is apparently a sensitive issue nowadays).
And yes, I am going there because it is part of history. Perhaps you don't want to acknowledge it, but it's there.
If we're going to harp and whine about slavery, which happened over 200 years ago then why not bring up whites who were enslaved? I say "get over it" but hey, some still want to hold negative opinions over something that no one today had control over or experienced.
I find it very interesting that as people cite "racist" behavior by minorities against whites they almost always seem to confine their examples of such behavior to criminal acts.
But I didn't so that shouldn't be a problem with my example.
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Originally Posted by caribny
Two issues.
1. The fact that minorities are usually confined to committing crimes to show their bias against whites shows how powerless they are. Whites can show their bias using very subtle forms of discrimination through their control over employment, housing, politics, etc.
While I don't entirely agree with this construct, I'll take the time to point out it does underscore racism/discrimination flowing both ways. The venues are less relevant than the fact that it cuts both ways. And on the individual level it is hardly comforting to know "whites have all the power." Even if I believed that were true it wouldn't be comforting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
2. Most criminal behavior is usually directed against fellow ethnics, and Hispanics aren't any exception. It is quite likely that the violence which you describe was also directed against other Hispanics.
Of course it is likely. But legal precedence tells us the motive is relevant in hate crimes. So why people do what they do is as relevant as what they do. Besides, as I've stated already, not everything I experienced was criminal. Some of it was just good old fashioned racism with no further explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Whether people chose to admit it or not minorities are rarely able to avoid being punished for displaying open bias as they lack control of institutions which enable them to disguise this behavior.
This doesn't negate or disprove the idea of racism or discrimination from races other than whites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
How ever people wish to define racism, unless it is backed by social, economic and/or political power it is without tremendous impact. If people behave like criminals, they will eventually be caught and punished.
I couldn't disagree more. It is magnified with power, but the disposition is there. And on the individual level it can make a major impression for a lot of people. Collectively this is a power influence.
I'm a little confused by this. OuttaTheLouBurbs's post indicates that it is possible for minorities to be racists, which has been the position I've been defending this whole time. I think we can agree that racism by a minority in a situation does not have the same impact as racism by a majority in that same situation. However that does not serve to show that minorities cannot be racist.
Does this mean that we are in agreement on the fact that minorities can be racist, but that racism by minorities is not as impactful/detrimental as racist by majorities? Because I have no problem agreeing to that.
Regarding the "white slavery" comment though, history has actually shown countless examples of white slavery. In some cases, it was the result of war, where the prisoners were made to be slaves for the victors. In other cases, debt caused the slavery (an issue still present today with human trafficking, but that was present even during the colonial times). So I don't believe slavery needs to be involved in either way to determine racism. Again, the examples of white slavery were not nearly as prevelant, nor as impactful, but they were still there.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-14-2014 at 10:53 PM..
Reason: Removed deleted quote
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