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Old 06-13-2014, 10:06 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,285 posts, read 16,128,557 times
Reputation: 11269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
You can't "what if" a portion of the population into jail. If your child didn't wash his hands after going to the bathroom would you be charged with manslaughter? Should we jail parents who are ineffective at teaching their kids to wash their hands? But "what if" they spread disease??


When kids come into contact with germs, they can unknowingly become infected simply by touching their eyes, nose, or mouth. And once they're infected, it's usually just a matter of time before the whole family comes down with the same illness.
Good hand washing is the first line of defense against the spread of many illnesses, from the common cold to more serious illnesses such as meningitis, bronchiolitis, influenza, hepatitis A, and most types of infectious diarrhea.
Why Is Hand Washing So Important?

You are the same people who will take over weight kids away and jail their parents. The same people who are willing to go to extremes because of your fears. That is far more dangerous then a few people choosing not to vaccinate their child. The worst thing that can happen to a child is not having their parents, which is what you're willing to do to calm your fear of disease.


This is why the pro vax groups are scary and over the top. They are no more realistic than the other side.
Pamphlets are fine, educating the public on why vaccines are beneficial is good. Scaring people into doing what you think is right for their family because you are afraid is harmful because life is full or scary "what if's" and you go too far to calm your fears by threatening others. Stop the fear tactics, they are unfounded. Stick to educating the pubic, not controlling them. You have no right to do this. Threatening people is not a good way to sell vaccines.

exactly WHERE did I say jail??

how is allowing an unvaccinated child out into the population to spread the EASILY prevented infectious diseases he has contracted due to his lack of vaccination any different than an adult being charged with a crime for knowingly spreading HIV without informing partners??

HIV is not the death sentence it once was... and most of the infectious diseases children should be vaccinated against aren't either.... but they all cause very real, and at times, very horrible illnesses, up to and including death....

of course, the unvaccinated child is not at fault.... it is the parents of that child who made the CHOICE to not vaccinate that child who should be held responsible.......

an overweight child does not present the health risks to unknowing innocents that an unvaccinated child does....

 
Old 06-13-2014, 11:47 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
A Fully Vaccinated Woman Contracted and Then Spread Measles. WTF? - The Daily Beast

Vaccinated ADULT brought back measles, not Jenny McCarty loving parents of unvaccinated children. Your science isn't omnipotent. As I said before, BLOOD TESTS for all adults too to PROVE immunity?

IMHO, not SCIENCE. I am waiting for the CDC to declare that even those of us had these diseases (and lived) as children and not vax against them, are somehow carriers of these diseases (Typhoid Marys and Johnnies?) and are are spereading these diseases also and must get vax too. It would not surprise me at all.
 
Old 06-13-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,285 posts, read 16,128,557 times
Reputation: 11269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
A Fully Vaccinated Woman Contracted and Then Spread Measles. WTF? - The Daily Beast

Vaccinated ADULT brought back measles, not Jenny McCarty loving parents of unvaccinated children. Your science isn't omnipotent. As I said before, BLOOD TESTS for all adults too to PROVE immunity?

IMHO, not SCIENCE. I am waiting for the CDC to declare that even those of us had these diseases (and lived) as children and not vax against them, are somehow carriers of these diseases (Typhoid Marys and Johnnies?) and are are spereading these diseases also and must get vax too. It would not surprise me at all.

Moderator cut: against guidelines

from your article:

The blood work collected in the report, led by Jennifer Rosen at the New York City Bureau of Immunization, showed that the patient’s immune system responded as though it had never seen the virus before, said George Rutherford, an epidemiologist at the University of California, San Francisco. “She looks like someone with primary measles,” he said of the 22-year-old patient. Basically, she’s a statistical anomaly.”

the physician's own words......

and in fact.... that article is actually pretty PRO-VAX.....

Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-13-2014 at 09:44 PM..
 
Old 06-13-2014, 03:49 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
a little hyperbolic, are we??

from your article:

The blood work collected in the report, led by Jennifer Rosen at the New York City Bureau of Immunization, showed that the patient’s immune system responded as though it had never seen the virus before, said George Rutherford, an epidemiologist at the University of California, San Francisco. “She looks like someone with primary measles,” he said of the 22-year-old patient. “Basically, she’s a statistical anomaly.”

the physician's own words......

and in fact.... that article is actually pretty PRO-VAX.....
Again, as I said, "Do they they know how many of us with "natural immunity" from having these diseases aren't walking around as Typhoid Mary's? WE have immunity from having the diseases, but how do you know that we cannot be carrying the disease and spreading it to YOU the vaccinated? The CDC cannot change their minds? 100% HERD (vaccinated) immunity!!!!!

Be afraid, be VERY afraid of the unvaccinated with natural disease immunity. ROFL, How do you people do really KNOW????? 100% VACCINATIONS is the ONLY way.

Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-13-2014 at 09:45 PM..
 
Old 06-13-2014, 03:55 PM
 
7,684 posts, read 3,843,952 times
Reputation: 4440
Vaccines are not safe for everyone. It's a roll of the dice. My stepson was given a DPT and was in the ER within a few minutes. He had multiple seizures over the next few hours. And almost didn't make it. Now at age 32, he has learning difficulties that has been attributed to the seizures.

Last edited by Floorist; 06-13-2014 at 04:45 PM..
 
Old 06-13-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,967 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31381
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
So, how many people die every year from somebody who isn't vaccinated? Enough to warrant a human rights over ride? Enough to MAKE everyone accept what ever vaccine the government deems necessary?


Do more children die from those who haven't been vaccinated then gun accidents? Why not make those illegal for families to own? Do more kids die from those who haven't had a vaccine then all the medical mistakes our hospitals, and doctors make a year? Maybe we should make it illegal for our kids to go to the hospital? How far are you willing to go with your pursuit of safety?

I would think more proof would be warranted before you take away a persons right to choose what they shoot into their bodies. It's a personal choice, regardless of the risks you've mentioned.

So far you've only justified this human rights violation with potential "what if's" scenarios. You've changed parents being jailed for not vaccinating to parents being "sued"

When you replied to me we were discussing mandatory vaccines or jail time. Not lawsuits. "I think any parent who doesn't vaccinate their child in America should be criminally charged with negligence and attempted manslaughter" is what you were replying to. Because that is what I was replying to. If you've changed your tune, then replying to me is useless. I'm not arguing whether or not vaccines are safe, I'm arguing if parents who refuse them should be criminally charged with negligence and attempted manslaughter.
Gun safety and medical mistakes are separate issues. Should we make everything that kills more people than disease illegal?

Every year, about 36,000 people die of flu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
A Fully Vaccinated Woman Contracted and Then Spread Measles. WTF? - The Daily Beast

Vaccinated ADULT brought back measles, not Jenny McCarty loving parents of unvaccinated children. Your science isn't omnipotent. As I said before, BLOOD TESTS for all adults too to PROVE immunity?

IMHO, not SCIENCE. I am waiting for the CDC to declare that even those of us had these diseases (and lived) as children and not vax against them, are somehow carriers of these diseases (Typhoid Marys and Johnnies?) and are are spereading these diseases also and must get vax too. It would not surprise me at all.
Read the article carefully. This woman did not bring back measles from anywhere. She had no travel history. The article calls her "fully vaccinated" but it doesn't offer proof that she was (fully vaccinated), either. And it is known that two doses of MMR vaccine provides immunity to 99.7% of the vaccinees. This woman, if she did get two doses, was one of the unlucky 0.3%. More likely, she got ONE dose, making her part of the unlucky 5% who don't obtain immunity.
 
Old 06-13-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,061 posts, read 9,792,250 times
Reputation: 18881
This thread has had a good run but it is now turning into a spat and is requiring too many deletions and too much editing to keep a civil tone.
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Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-13-2014 at 05:47 PM..
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