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Old 06-03-2014, 02:41 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,194,953 times
Reputation: 13392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Understood. Any your reply was very good, not like some saying people that don't immunize their children should be charged with attempted manslaughter. That type of response shows a lack of common sense and is driven by emotion, I see people like that debating other topics. I agree it is all about knowledge and trust. I guess if it wasn't pushed the way it is , I'd probably be more open about it. I am saddened we weren't able to have a child but glad that we didn't have to make this decision.
As far as myself and my wife, we try to limit our intake of over the counter or prescription drugs. I do take an allergy med and she takes a thryroid med. But it is our choice to take these, at the moment vaccinations are still a choice, although a tough one but it is looking like that choice might be gone in the future, that is where I have an issue with it.
It's a tough call when it comes to immunization for communicable diseases since those personal decisions do potentially affect society as a whole while the choice to take blood pressure or cholesterol meds/whatever do not.

Anyhow, as a parent I completely understand the fear of vaccines since there is a lot of scary bell ringing about it, however off the mark it may be.

 
Old 06-03-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Hawaii-Puna District
3,754 posts, read 9,530,046 times
Reputation: 2444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I have been to my own family's gravesite. Saw the names of 4 babies under the age of 5 my great-grandma had. My grandmother was the ONLY child of 5 to survive. She was born in 1884. ALL of her 4 children did survive. That was not because vaccinations. They were not around from 1905 through 1919. She and her babies were just LUCKY???? Ever consider maybe it was something else? Grandma survived all those epidemics and passed on her natural immunity antibodies to her offspring.
80% of her children died. That's terrible and I am truly sorry that she had to endure that.

Having noted that, it is mainly due to vaccines that the vast majority of parents now do not have to bear that same pain of losing a child due to a preventable illness.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 02:51 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,194,953 times
Reputation: 13392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
You people are all about ME, ME, ME. You are going to kill ME. Only YOU have rights. Nobody else.

As an unvaccinated ELDERLY person, BS. They use US Seniors too. Your unvaccinated kids will be killing GRANNY. As a Senior I say to the CDC, SHUT UP, and using us as a propganda tool. Let parents, and ADULTS, decide for themselves. I am not getting your vaccinations as a Senior adult. Try and FORCE me. America has drank the government Kool-Aid and make Pharmecticals and Doctors RICH using fear tacits. You are just a PAWN (sheep immunity) and you cannot even see that you are being using for an agenda for $$$$$$.
So you don't take any prescriptions? Good for you if you don't.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,677,539 times
Reputation: 4236
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Immunity from mother to baby (antibodies which pass through the placenta) is temporary, lasting only a few weeks to months. Breast milk also contains antibodies, extending protection. But after that, a baby/child will have no natural immunity to disease.

The only naturally-occurring lifelong antibodies that a human has are those pertaining to the ABO blood system (your blood type).
This is true, except a genetically strong immune system can be inherited. The only scientifically valid argument used by the anti-vaxxers is that, because we are eliminating evolutionary pressure (i.e., diseases kill off those with weaker immune systems first), we are weakening the human species as a whole by allowing the weak to survive and reproduce. You could argue that the four babies that died had inferior immune systems, and because they died they didn't pass those immune systems on to descendants.

But telling a mother that four of her five children must die to keep humans strong is utterly ridiculous.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,494 posts, read 26,089,700 times
Reputation: 26455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I have been to my own family's gravesite. Saw the names of 4 babies under the age of 5 my great-grandma had. My grandmother was the ONLY child of 5 to survive. She was born in 1884. ALL of her 4 children did survive. That was not because vaccinations. They were not around from 1905 through 1919. She and her babies were just LUCKY???? Ever consider maybe it was something else? Grandma survived all those epidemics and passed on her natural immunity antibodies to her offspring.
Yes, she and her babies were just lucky.

Moms cannot pass permanent antibody protection to their offspring. That protection is temporary and stops once children are weaned from the breast. Even during pregnancy and breast feeding there is only protection for diseases to which the mother is immune. That immunity can be produced by catching the disease (mom has to suffer the illness to do that) or by immunization, which keeps her from having to be sick in order to be immune.

In addition to the children's headstones in cemeteries, the federal census mortality schedules are interesting. As an example here is 1880 for Shelby County, AL.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/al/she.../mortbeat1.txt

You will see eight entries for whooping cough and 15 for diphtheria. In 1880, the county population was 17,236. There was lots of typhoid, too. In the US sanitation has controlled typhoid and we no longer routinely vaccinate for it. Smallpox was vaccinated out of existence in the wild.

If we do not vaccinate for those diseases that still circulate in the US, they will come back.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,494 posts, read 26,089,700 times
Reputation: 26455
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
That may be true but how many times have we seen how corrupt large corporations can become when billions of dollars are on the line, or how many drugs that were deemed safe have now been found to be harmful , and how we can't trust the FDA to ensure that what we are eating, drinking or whatever is completely safe. Granted, what we have here in the US is probably far more safe for us then elsewhere in the world.
Pharmaceutical companies would make billions treating the infectious diseases that would result if we stopped vaccinating. Every vaccine goes through a cost analysis before it is approved. If it will not save money, no one will buy it.

There is no way to guarantee any drug is "completely safe". That is an unreasonable expectation.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 05:06 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,194,565 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Yes, she and her babies were just lucky.

Moms cannot pass permanent antibody protection to their offspring. That protection is temporary and stops once children are weaned from the breast. Even during pregnancy and breast feeding there is only protection for diseases to which the mother is immune. That immunity can be produced by catching the disease (mom has to suffer the illness to do that) or by immunization, which keeps her from having to be sick in order to be immune.

In addition to the children's headstones in cemeteries, the federal census mortality schedules are interesting. As an example here is 1880 for Shelby County, AL.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/al/she.../mortbeat1.txt

You will see eight entries for whooping cough and 15 for diphtheria. In 1880, the county population was 17,236. There was lots of typhoid, too. In the US sanitation has controlled typhoid and we no longer routinely vaccinate for it. Smallpox was vaccinated out of existence in the wild.

If we do not vaccinate for those diseases that still circulate in the US, they will come back.
My Uncle was a premmie twin born in 1924. He was the bigger twin. My Mom was 4 years older. All of them got whooping cough when Mom was 6 and the twins were 2. Mom and Uncle survived it but the smaller weaker twin did not. It was a given back in those days. If modern science, and vax, had existed back then, perhaps Anthony would have lived, but at what price? What would his life has been like? I know Uncle Sal, the stronger and bigger twin, grew up to be a semi-pro boxer and paratrooper in WW2. He had 4 children. Would his weaker twin has been able to do that? Was my Grandma so grief stricken losing a child? Nor really, because she still had two others who did survive into adulthood and give her grandkids.

Old song, health fanatics. Que sera, sera. What will be, will be. I lost a child myself to a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. Can your vax and science prevent that one TODAY????? It's just life. I already had a child before that one, and had another after that. Death is part of life, and your MEDICINE will never END death, as much as you want it to. I actually feel sorry for all of you llving in such fear of death.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,858 posts, read 6,201,488 times
Reputation: 1962
If you want to ignore the advancements in science and medicine, I think you should just go all the way. No TV, car, internet, etc.

Measles are coming back at a higher rate and don't be surprised if we start seeing Polio soon. Polio in the USA in 2014/15...straight up stupidity.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 05:49 PM
 
794 posts, read 547,580 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Vaccines do not cause autism. That has been definitively confirmed with many studies, including one in Denmark that showed no difference in vaccinated and unvaccinated children.
Why does the The National Autism Association believe that vaccinations can trigger or exacerbate autism in some, if not many, children, especially those who are genetically predisposed to immune, autoimmune or inflammatory conditions then?

Quote:
MMR vaccine is not linked with autism, says Danish study
How come to date, only the MMR vaccine and mercury in vaccines have been studied?

Quote:
With so many millions of children affected by autism–and the spiraling increase in that number–shouldn’t scientists take seriously the eye witness reports by thousands of parents who blame vaccines for triggering autistic spectrum in their previously healthy children?

There is a pressing need to examine without prejudice whether the vaccine-autism association is valid by comparing autism (and other health) outcomes in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children.

Why is such an obviously necessary research approach so contentious and, therefore, neglected?

Whose financial investments are threatened by an analysis of data comparing the health of children vaccinated with those not vaccinated?
?

Quote:
To spend any more money on it would be wasteful.
Wasteful? That's your argument for the CDC (who's former head is now the head of Merck) refusing to even study... well, as said in what I linked below, here --V
Quote:
The CDC has refused to study the autism rate in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated kids, because they are a captive agency of vaccine manufacturers. The former head of the CDC is now the head of Merck vaccines, the largest US vaccine manufacturer.
?
 
Old 06-03-2014, 05:57 PM
 
584 posts, read 920,111 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Maryland View Post
Why does the The National Autism Association believe that vaccinations can trigger or exacerbate autism in some, if not many, children, especially those who are genetically predisposed to immune, autoimmune or inflammatory conditions then?



How come to date, only the MMR vaccine and mercury in vaccines have been studied?



?



Wasteful? That's your argument for the CDC (who's former head is now the head of Merck) refusing to even study... well, as said in what I linked below, here --V


?
How come getting acknowledgement of an injury and compensation is so difficult? (Be sure to read the comments, too.) Story here
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