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Old 06-03-2014, 07:13 PM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,540 posts, read 5,078,110 times
Reputation: 6538

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The science is too complex for many people, so they turn to superstition. It's a way of coping with a world that has become too difficult for them to understand.

 
Old 06-03-2014, 07:21 PM
 
8,352 posts, read 8,626,083 times
Reputation: 26097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Maryland View Post
Why does the The National Autism Association believe that vaccinations can trigger or exacerbate autism in some, if not many, children, especially those who are genetically predisposed to immune, autoimmune or inflammatory conditions then?

Do you know who is on the Board of Directors for the National Autism Association? I looked. Its mostly a collection of parents who have a child with autism. I didn't find one person with a medical background on the list. I did find accountants, people who work in advertising, an MBA, and an educator. I'm not faulting any of these fields, but I don't allow people without a medical background to give me an opinion about medical issues. The cause of autism is a medical issue. What has been thoroughly established is that it doesn't have anything to do with immunization.


How come to date, only the MMR vaccine and mercury in vaccines have been studied?

I don't know that others haven't been studied. However, I do know that studies are very expensive and time consuming. We don't need to study whether aspirin can cure a headache or whether insulin lowers a person's blood glucose level. There are some things that we just know and we have a limited number of research dollars.


?



Wasteful? That's your argument for the CDC (who's former head is now the head of Merck) refusing to even study... well, as said in what I linked below, here --V


?
If there is a point here I don't get it.

I think it if would put these issues to rest once and for all, we could agree to do a few more studies. It wouldn't put the issues to rest though because some people are determined to believe that immunizations are causing harm even when they aren't. They would simply claim any additional study is flawed and attempt to reject the results of that.

At some point, you just have to stand your ground and call a fool a fool.

The mercury or thimersol was taken out of immunizations despite the fact that no link was ever shown between it and autism or any other disorder. It was primarily done to make a few people nervous about mercury a little more relieved. Unfortunately, this action helped feed the paranoia of some groups who oppose vaccination. In that sense, I think doing it was a mistake.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 07:25 PM
 
794 posts, read 550,214 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anony-Momma View Post
How come getting acknowledgement of an injury and compensation is so difficult? (Be sure to read the comments, too.) Story here
Great link, sad story, thank you.

I simply cannot understand the rabidity of the vaxers - if only for the simple fact that they are free to vax their children, so their kids are protected from the unwashed and sullied masses of unvaxed children.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 07:47 PM
 
794 posts, read 550,214 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
If there is a point here I don't get it.
One point is the fact that the CDC, formerly headed by the current head of Merck - a major vaccine manufacturer, refuses to study certain aspects of vaccines in relation to Autism.

Quote:
I think it if would put these issues to rest once and for all, we could agree to do a few more studies. It wouldn't put the issues to rest though because some people are determined to believe that immunizations are causing harm even when they aren't. They would simply claim any additional study is flawed and attempt to reject the results of that.
Vaccines have been proven to cause harm, this is nothing new. Just how much harm vs value is the debate.

Quote:
At some point, you just have to stand your ground and call a fool a fool.
Yes, this is true.

Quote:
The mercury or thimersol was taken out of immunizations despite the fact that no link was ever shown between it and autism or any other disorder. It was primarily done to make a few people nervous about mercury a little more relieved. Unfortunately, this action helped feed the paranoia of some groups who oppose vaccination. In that sense, I think doing it was a mistake.
Mercury is toxic to humans. This is not paranoia.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,138,779 times
Reputation: 18146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anony-Momma View Post
Many families who believed in vaccines, believed in the social responsibility of it - saw a child become very ill with a vaccine - extreme fever, high pitched screaming, the onset of chronic diarrhea, sometimes seizures - alongside a sudden loss of skills and interaction - a fast decline into regressive autism - stopped vaccinating all of their children. If that happened to your child, would you still continue to vaccinate?
This is why it is important for the families to make the decisions and not the government. My sons had to be vaccinated to attend school. The younger one avoided many since I pulled him out of school. Homeschooling is growing and I'm guessing this debate is helping the numbers grow. Choice. It is America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The science behind vaccines is well established and has nothing to do with the government. Government is involved only in the context of protecting public health.
If you search the internet or even City-Data, there is a lot of good information for both sides of this debate. It has been debated to death just at City-Data. Protecting public health? Only when it puts money in a lobbyist pocket. Look at all the poisons they allow in the food, the air,..........I'd get another source and do my own research for best results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdand3boys View Post
Consider yourself very lucky.

Have you ever gone to an older cemetery and looked at how many tombstones have the names/dates of small children who died very young? I would hazard a guess that many of them died from measles, flu, etc. I bet those parents who lost those children would have gladly vaccinated their child if it was available to them back then.
You might review: Understanding Your Ancestors: Western European Ancestors: Demographics: Death and Illness Relatives that I am familiar with the cause of death were scarlet fever, pneumonia, strep throat and I know that there was a plague in our current state when they burned feces (horse or buffalo, I think) and the smoke infected a lot of people. There were also issues with malnutrition and with breast-feeding the baby can only be as healthy as the mother with many children breast-feeding for a long period of time. They didn't have formulas and vitamins. It wasn't a good time to live in general.

If you start looking at the stats, it isn't the childhood diseases but the weakness in the individual before contracting the disease. The disease may contribute and the child sometimes has not be immunized because of their weak state.

It is SO important to not rely on one source for one's information especially with the lobbyists out there!
 
Old 06-03-2014, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
16,882 posts, read 20,735,209 times
Reputation: 31199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcs15 View Post
I saw this written by Dr. Roy Benaroch. It is a parable about vaccination. My question is do you agree? Or are you against vaccinations. If you are against, please explain why.


Ron was puzzled. He had been a mechanic for many years, and had known Ms. McCarthy through two previous vehicles. But what could he say to a request like this?

Two Peds in a Pod: A vaccine parable by Dr. Benaroch

This is a must read.
I tried to read this article, but stopped after a short go.

So, what was the point? What does changing one tire at a time have to do with vaccines? This parable article didn't do it for me.

For the record - yes to all vaccines. When I was a kid, there were lots of kids with crippled younger brothers and sisters from Polio. I also vaccinate my dog.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,986 posts, read 3,168,796 times
Reputation: 5622
Let's see:

If one vaccinates, they are protected from horrendous debilitating and deadly diseases. The only drawback of doing so is that certain celebrities without any medical background nor knowledge alleged that vaccinations can cause autism, despite no scientific proof to back up that claim.

If one does not vaccinate, they don't have to worry about unsubstantiated urban legends of vaccinations causing autism. However, they will have to worry about very real possibility of catching debilitating and/or lethal diseases such as polio, smallpox, German measles, rubella, scarlet fever, tuberculosis, etc. etc.

Personally, I'd take the word over the established medical community over that of a a vapid, former Playboy model who achieved fame for two reasons - neither of which being her brain.
 
Old 06-03-2014, 09:39 PM
 
584 posts, read 923,707 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
Let's see:



If one does not vaccinate, they don't have to worry about unsubstantiated urban legends of vaccinations causing autism. However, they will have to worry about very real possibility of catching debilitating and/or lethal diseases such as polio, smallpox, German measles, rubella, scarlet fever, tuberculosis, etc. etc.
Interesting that so many vocal parent groups continue to grow and invest in that "urban legend".

The Canary Party

Home | The Thinking Moms' Revolution

Generation Rescue I Jenny McCarthy's Autism Organization Generation Rescue | Jenny McCarthy's Autism Organization

Safeminds - Restoring Health through awareness of Autism and Mercury

Autism Support
 
Old 06-03-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
578 posts, read 1,069,598 times
Reputation: 343
Although I see that the rules of this forum say to "*quote sources and cite references", it does not require that the poster to quote reliable sources, of which none in your previous post are reliable as they come from biased sources.

It's unfortunate that autism has the most visible symptoms develop around the same time that the kids tend to get their vaccinations, but also incorrect to say that autism is linked to vaccinations. Correlation does not mean causation. Science is now showing that there are things happening in the womb that may cause autism, such as anti-depressants and other genetics issues.

Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-03-2014 at 10:41 PM.. Reason: Deleted quote
 
Old 06-03-2014, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
16,882 posts, read 20,735,209 times
Reputation: 31199
Moderator cut: Against forum guidelines

I don't care about the collateral damage. Or rather, that would not stop me from promoting the vaccine. What's the alternative?

I take medication with side effects I don't like. But, not taking the medication is a worse choice for me.

I think it's foolish not to vaccinate, based on the chance the vaccine may cause some damage. In all my life, I've never once met anyone who even knew anyone that had any kind of major reaction from a vaccine. So, I base my belief that this is a rare thing on my personal lifetime experience. I'm 58 years old.

Oh, and nobody I every knew who had been vaccinated ended up autistic.

We are not going to agree here. But, I can only deduce that you are someone young enough to have not seen people with your own eyes, or who were in your own family, who were crippled, or who had bad hearts, etc., etc., because of diseases that are now preventable. I am guessing that you don't have that experience, and I believe that if you did, you would not think twice about vaccinating your children.

I call it the voice of experience, you call it condescending. I hope your children don't suffer any consequences based on your decision not to vaccinate. I wouldn't wish that on any child. Or any parent.

Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-03-2014 at 10:45 PM..
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