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students who'd come in after receiving grades lower than what they were used to getting in HS. He said that he was not into "grade inflation," yet many of the students expected it. They weren't "all that," and had a hard time accepting it.
I'm faculty at a community college. This is definitely true, although it's not unique to generation Y or Z - I get students in their 30s-70s too and they can be just as nitpicky. However, the older students are much more likely to fix the problem quickly on their own and seem more sensitive and responsive to feedback.
Younger students do get offended by grades that are less than A or excellent. They think that B=bad and C=fail, which it doesn't, that means "good" and "average."
I teach history so the material is not inherently difficult but very time consuming, requiring good time management, planning, scheduling & the discipline to stick to it.
A lot of students, always younger ones, complain about the workload being unreasonable or standards too high.
But then, I'm only 31. I don't remember thinking that way all the time when I was 21 but I did think it now and then. The difference was I didn't hold grudges and blame everyone but myself. Usually if I didn't make the grade I wanted, I already knew the reason.
I think you may misunderstand whom I am and my situation.
I am not a Millenial. I'm a later baby-boomer (born 59'). I've been rather successful in life. I'm a professional with an income in the low six figure range.
Please stop thinking the only one who could disagree with the way you think is a Millenial who is used too, in your words, "being coddled". There are plenty of older folks who are sick and tired of this conservative notion that everyone gets what they deserve in life. Someone entering the job in the Great Depression didn't have the same opportunity that someone entering it in the 1950's or the 1960's did. There's more going on here than just "personal responsibility". Environment is a huge factor in determining both whether one is successful and the degree of success in life. You can "give away all the trophies" you want. It doesn't change that.
You certainly sound like a millennial!
I have never said that people get what they deserve in life. Nor do I believe that. That's only realistic.
I do strongly believe that life isn't always fair and that it's our personal responsibility to make our own as good as possible. Having done that, stop whining, pointing the finger and expecting other people to change to accommodate you. Ask for help if you need it but don't expect it. I don't see a lot of that in present society.
And I also strongly believe that material success has little to do with quality of life. What makes a generation remarkable is the measure of it's character.
Environment of all kinds is what it is and our power to change it is limited. Using it as an excuse is cringe-worthy. I could have won the race if it weren't 110 degrees out.
Changing ourselves is a possibility. I guess I won't be running today. What else could I do that is constructive?
I graduated from college in 1970. I was female, so I didn't have to worry about the draft, like my male classmates did. Graduate and lose your deferment, an all-expenses paid trip to 'Nam. In 1971, Nixon imposed wage and price controls. In 1973 we had the energy crisis. We had inflation and stagnation and all sorts of other crap.
Both my kids graduated in 2009, one from physical therapy school and one from undergrad. The PT got a full-time job, but a lot of her classmates had to put together a couple of part time jobs, and these people had huge levels of student debt. The other one got a job in a day care, not her choice, but it did pay the bills.
It's never been easy. I agree this recession has been bad for young adults, but most of the YAs that I know do have professional jobs, even my younger daughter now.
What, exactly, is the point of "face time?" Does it accomplish anything?
I'm on the boarder of being a millennial (I think) being that I was born in 1981. Personally, I am just not interested in being at work for the sake of being at work. If my boss wants me to sit here all night he needs to give me more to do. I'm so sick and tired of being punished for being efficient. I get everything done and I leave. If you can't deal with that, hire someone who is less intelligent and/or wastes more time.
Guess what, I haven't been fired for my lack of face time because I do the best work on my team. It requires the least revision from my manager and is the most thorough. I see no reason to let my vacation time expire just to prove I am a hard worker. My work itself shows that I am. If a company/manager cannot accept that, I think they have the issue, not me. Just because something has always been a certain way does not mean it is the best way.
I openly admit that my personal/social life is much more important to me than my career now. I worked much harder (in terms of face time) when I first started out, but I quickly learned that it didn't really matter because managers promote who they like, not the person that does the best work. I don't see why anyone should put their job before their outside life 100% of the time. I care about my job. I care about my family and friends more. Much more. I don't see that as a problem with any particular generation. Personally, I think it shows that some people have their priorities straight. As the old saying goes, no one on their death bed says they wished they had spent more time at work.
I have no idea what your career is but face time can be very important to your future. In many organizations the person that interacts with their supervisors, and does the efficient work, can trump the person that grinds it out and leaves when the work is done.
It sounds like you have not had too many jobs yet and have not experienced the necessity of face time. If you want to be the efficient drone that is fine but don't be surprised if the slightly less efficient drone who can schmooze a bit is considered more of an asset to you.
I agree on the work/life balance to an extent. If you are that good, you should go to your supervisors and ask for more work. They will appreciate that. I too have seen the less than efficient people get brownie points over the years because they didn't mind putting in 12 hour days.
I have no idea what your career is but face time can be very important to your future. In many organizations the person that interacts with their supervisors, and does the efficient work, can trump the person that grinds it out and leaves when the work is done.
It sounds like you have not had too many jobs yet and have not experienced the necessity of face time. If you want to be the efficient drone that is fine but don't be surprised if the slightly less efficient drone who can schmooze a bit is considered more of an asset to you.
I agree on the work/life balance to an extent. If you are that good, you should go to your supervisors and ask for more work. They will appreciate that. I too have seen the less than efficient people get brownie points over the years because they didn't mind putting in 12 hour days.
Face time doesn't work the same way or have the same impact as it used to. I spent a few years working in a virtual company, where I rarely saw my boss for the first 2 years.
The key skill isn't actually face time, but managing up, and communicating your effectiveness, no matter where you are working. Likability still matters, but that can be cultivated via non-in person stuff too. Time spent in the office, particularly in newer companies, doesn't translate. Results do. It isn't just doing the work, but proving your work matters.
I think with more media blaring in your face all the time, insecure people with no idea of reality can be quickly swayed into believing anything, including the idea that they are failures in their 20s.
This is so relieving for me to hear! As a Millennial, I believe the workplace in America needs a complete overhaul. It doesn't exist for the people, for the humanity in the workplace, it exists for making $$. Fortunately, Millennials (for the most part) seem to be "over" the whole concept of making money and being a consumer for the rest of their lives. I am a hard worker, but I don't see the point in drowning myself in work when I could be taking vacations and enjoying my life (and the fact that I'll be laid off in a couple years again anyway!)
It's the workplace that needs to change to be more forgiving of human beings who need time for relationships, family and vacations, it's not the human beings in the workplace that need to transform more into robots to "get the job done"
Just my opinion... I really do hope that's the direction our workplaces are headed.
It's called capitalism ... Moderator cut: against forum guidelines
If you'd like to turn this nation over into a socialist or even communist society, you have my blessing to try. (You might note how fast and how far the Occupy Movement got with their ideals.) But even someone who's as pro-corporation as our current president causes an uproar every time he tries to put one little extra expectation on the 1%, such as they should pay a living wage to someone who works 40+ hours a week or that profitable corporations should pay income taxes to the Federal government. So I have a feeling that your idea that you are a "hard worker" even though you are unwilling to "drown yourself in work when you could be taking vacations" won't go over all that well with the capitalists who are running our economy.
As for your millennial friends who "seem to be 'over' the whole concept of making money and being a consumer for the rest of their lives," how do you fit the Kardashians, the tech billionaires, and pro sports players into that picture? They're millennials.
I have no idea what your career is but face time can be very important to your future. In many organizations the person that interacts with their supervisors, and does the efficient work, can trump the person that grinds it out and leaves when the work is done.
It sounds like you have not had too many jobs yet and have not experienced the necessity of face time. If you want to be the efficient drone that is fine but don't be surprised if the slightly less efficient drone who can schmooze a bit is considered more of an asset to you.
I agree on the work/life balance to an extent. If you are that good, you should go to your supervisors and ask for more work. They will appreciate that. I too have seen the less than efficient people get brownie points over the years because they didn't mind putting in 12 hour days.
Well, I work for a large bank. I have had more than 20 jobs and this is my fifth professional job. I'm into six figures now, salary-wise. I think I have a handle on my career, thanks.
Face time doesn't work the same way or have the same impact as it used to. I spent a few years working in a virtual company, where I rarely saw my boss for the first 2 years.
The key skill isn't actually face time, but managing up, and communicating your effectiveness, no matter where you are working. Likability still matters, but that can be cultivated via non-in person stuff too. Time spent in the office, particularly in newer companies, doesn't translate. Results do. It isn't just doing the work, but proving your work matters.
I think your second paragraph is key. It may not come across on an internet forum, but I am actually a likeable person. I talk to my boss almost every day so he knows what I'm working on and I meet all the deadlines he selects. I often get ahead of schedule, actually, despite never putting in more than 7 hours a day.
It isn't just this way at new companies. I work for a very old company now (established more than 100 years ago). My last job was also with an older, established firm (that has been around for 80 years). In my last role, my boss was across the country and I saw him a grand total of 5 times in 4 years. Obviously, there was no opportunity for face time at all.
I'll admit, I am stubborn about it, but I refuse to be at work for the sake of people seeing me at work. I cannot think of a bigger waste of time. If my boss wants to talk to me, he knows how to reach me.
I have no idea what your career is but face time can be very important to your future. In many organizations the person that interacts with their supervisors, and does the efficient work, can trump the person that grinds it out and leaves when the work is done.
It sounds like you have not had too many jobs yet and have not experienced the necessity of face time. If you want to be the efficient drone that is fine but don't be surprised if the slightly less efficient drone who can schmooze a bit is considered more of an asset to you.
I agree on the work/life balance to an extent. If you are that good, you should go to your supervisors and ask for more work. They will appreciate that. I too have seen the less than efficient people get brownie points over the years because they didn't mind putting in 12 hour days.
Here is the problem I run into at my office. Face time or as we call it "perception time" is more important than the actual job. I am a designer in the automotive industry, have been for 25 years. It has NEVER been this way up until the last 6-8 years. Now we have individuals, that can't design or engineer their way out of a paper bag but they are here 12 hours a day struggling to complete their tasks , and also volunteer for added training (in many cases not even related to their current job) , never speak up even if the direction they are headed with is incorrect and these are the individuals that get high praise from management. The designers and engineers that come in , bang out their jobs quickly (work and 8 hour day) , call out incorrect direction and basically come in due their job and leave are looked down upon. It has become total bizzaro world. The work place has become a place were the job at hand is not the important thing, it isn't about "work smart , not hard" , it has become a place were all they want to see is effort, even if it's wrong. For example, if a designer worked 70hrs in a week and produced a part that can't even be tooled, they are look upon better than the designer that worked 40 hrs and produced a perfect part.
We've had "cultural training" here several times since we are a Japanese owned company. And the saying that sticks with me the most was "that nail that sticks up, gets hammered down. "
The work place has become such a joke , it's a wonder things even get done. Now I will say , the only people that seem unhappy are us older ones, mainly because we are from a time where we were judged on how well we actually performed our jobs. The young people are happy because , they don't know any better and they are just happy to be working.
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