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I was watching Rachel Maddow (like I do) after everything went crazy in Ferguson and I caught this interview with Missouri State Rep. Courtney Allen Curtis. Something stuck out for me after 6:00 - Rachel asked him why people were frustrated about speeding tickets 'do people think African-Americans are being targeted unfairly?' and he responded "no, speed cameras get everyone regardless of race".
Which got me thinking about the story of racial profiling with the NJ State Police from 2000 or so. The US Justice Department ordered NJ to do a review of its training then also asked the state to study the issue. So they put cameras up on the NJ Turnpike to take pictures of people speeding. Speeding, in this case, was considered to be anything 15mph or more over the speed limit (otherwise it would just be going nonstop). The state came back to the Justice Department with the results and the Justice Department asked NJ to bury it because they questioned the methodology.
While there is clear evidence that the NJ State Police encouraged profiling it also seems that black drivers were speeding at rates much higher than white drivers - to put it more precisely they were far more likely to be going faster than 80 in a 65 and the higher the speeds the more likely it was that the driver was black. Study Suggests Racial Gap In Speeding In New Jersey - NYTimes.com
Since living abroad I'm much more aware of what little regard most Americans have for most laws (a sense of entitlement) and how quickly people take a hostile, confrontational tone with police seems uniquely American. But the brazen flouting of the law the 'I know this is illegal so watch me do it in public' seems especially pronounced in people from lower socio-economic backgrounds (regardless of race). But still, I look around my own neighborhood and see who is standing on the corner smoking weed in public - the poor black, puerto rican and cambodian kids. Some white kids also do it but it seems that in most white, mexican and vietnamese circles it's something you do inside. It's generally understood that if you do it outside you're just inviting trouble from the cops. But again, I also understand there's a strong corollary with those latter ethnic groups and higher household incomes and you won't catch middle class black kids doing that stuff either.
So, getting to a point here, a few years ago this group of 4 black kids was sitting on the steps of the house next door to mine (trespassing) while smoking up. It's also important to note that everyone in the neighborhood (including the cops) know these kids as the corner boys selling just about everything one would hope to buy at such a drug mart. So, unsurprisingly (to me anyway), the bike cops roll up on these kids, frisk them, then arrest one of them because he had a warrant because he didn't feel like showing up to court on some other charge. As soon as the cops told them to put their hands on the wall one of the kids said "y'all just out here harassing us because we're black." The black cop patting him down said, "now you're just being stupid."
So the normal knee-jerk stuff from the white bigots will be something like "well, of course, they're black." and the normal knee-jerk stuff from middle-class black people will be something like "well, I'm black and I don't speed and I still get pulled over for no reason." So if you're in the former group - go away. If you're in the latter I'd like to talk about the distinction between the kind of harassment you've experienced (real or perceived) and the kind of policing that goes on in neighborhoods like mine that gets called harassment but is really just cops doing their jobs when people are willfully breaking the law in very public places.
For open discussion and to truly work on determining the distinction between these, there is still one group left out which is the one I would fall in....
I'm black, I don't speed or break the law, and I do not get stopped or harassed for no reason.
I was watching Rachel Maddow (like I do) after everything went crazy in Ferguson and I caught this interview with Missouri State Rep. Courtney Allen Curtis. Something stuck out for me after 6:00 - Rachel asked him why people were frustrated about speeding tickets 'do people think African-Americans are being targeted unfairly?' and he responded "no, speed cameras get everyone regardless of race".
So YOU'RE the one!
But I digress. Anyone that is a consistent traveler on the roads, especially major roadways, knows that young black men are much more likely to be the ones behind the wheel when you see a vehicle traveling at high speeds and aggressively than other races.
Let's be intellectually honest here.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 09-12-2014 at 04:54 PM..
Reason: Fixed formatting
I was watching Rachel Maddow (like I do) after everything went crazy in Ferguson and I caught this interview with Missouri State Rep. Courtney Allen Curtis. Something stuck out for me after 6:00 - Rachel asked him why people were frustrated about speeding tickets 'do people think African-Americans are being targeted unfairly?' and he responded "no, speed cameras get everyone regardless of race".
So YOU'RE the one!
But I digress. Anyone that is a consistent traveler on the roads, especially major roadways, knows that young black men are much more likely to be the ones behind the wheel when you see a vehicle traveling at high speeds and aggressively than other races.
Let's be intellectually honest here.
That's not true, cannot be. Intellectually honest, I have never even thought what you just described. It could be that your attitude is normal in your neck of the woods and the young black men know about your attitude and resent it.
Change and healing begin with oneself, then we can change societies inequalities.
"The illiterate of the 21st century are those that cannot learn, unlearn then relearn."
Last edited by Oldhag1; 09-12-2014 at 04:55 PM..
Reason: Fixed formatting
If I could profile the stock market like I can prolife people I would buy and sell bill gates. And I would be wrong sometimes. But I would be right many more times. That's all people.
Abuse of this is a different story and it happens.
Since I'm a white male and you've pretty much told us to bugger off with our opinions on the racial aspects of your post, I'll keep those thoughts to myself and limit my response to the topic of police/citizen relations in general.
As to your observation that Americans tend to be more confrontational with police than people from other nations(and without getting in to the accuracy of your claim), I think the reason behind any acrimony that does exist can be traced back to the war on drugs. That is the event that changed the relationship between police and citizen permanently. Police are no longer advocates of law abiding citizenry, they are the aggressors in a war against those they were once sworn to serve and protect. So long as the war on drugs remains a primary priority of law enforcement this dynamic is not going to change.
I don't know what cop/black relations are in Troy, NY. Murders and shootings have been pretty bad this year. A couple of white druggies killed a white couple last month. The shootings, though, are mostly black. What the cops say is Albany drove out some gangbangers last year and they moved to Troy and now it's a turf battle.
Cops get caught in the middle of it. One kid was shot, the cops asked who did it and the kid's mother told him not to tell. That's the way it is.
There was a bar fight last winter. The owner called the cops, they responded, and there was a melee. Cops fighting blacks, blacks fighting cops, the video just showed fighting.
Last couple of weeks it's been a black Troy councilwoman vs. the cops' union president. Seems there was a fight between 2 women, one black the other white. The white girl leaves, the cops show up and arrest the black girl. The councilwoman videoed it (couldn't see much), then she accused of arresting only blacks. She goes on the internet claiming white AmeriKKKa (that's how she spelled it) is exterminating blacks, etc. The PBA head accuses her in a council meeting of inciting the crowd to riot during the black girl/white girl fight, the crowd was spitting on the cops, and so on.
Yesterday she wants an investigation of the PBA head, he defamed her. And so it goes. Before, after some other shooting, some black guy gets his puss on TV, saying the problem is there's no jobs, none of this, none of that.
My overall impression is that cop/black relations aren't good. Most crime is committed by blacks in black neighborhoods. Cops job is to stop it. If it was my neighborhood, I'd be glad the cops are trying to get it under control. That's not the way it is, though.
I was watching Rachel Maddow (like I do) after everything went crazy in Ferguson and I caught this interview with Missouri State Rep. Courtney Allen Curtis. Something stuck out for me after 6:00 - and you won't catch middle class black kids doing that stuff either.
Most of the blacks who get arrested for weed were not smoking it in public. They were stopped and searched and weed was found in their possession.
The vast majority of usage of hard core drugs in NYC is now among whites, with the lowest usage being among blacks. Yet most of the people who get arrested for drug possession are blacks.
There is a different type ofr policing done in black neighborhoods (BOTH middle class and low income). It isnt about protect and serve. It is about OCCUPY, with attitudes towards those people who dont have personal ties to the police seen as potentially hostile.
The result is that there is way more energy focused on traffic violations and petty drug possession. Evfen when robberies and burglaries are a much more critical problem.
What people need to take away from Ferguson is polici9ng tactics. Should some body be strong armed because they are illegally selling loose cigarettes? Not when a serious fight is going on right when this attempt to arrest is occurring!
Last edited by Oldhag1; 09-12-2014 at 04:55 PM..
Reason: Fixed formatting
For open discussion and to truly work on determining the distinction between these, there is still one group left out which is the one I would fall in....
I'm black, I don't speed or break the law, and I do not get stopped or harassed for no reason.
So are you implying that the black woman who was arrested by the cops, who then wanted to frisk her kids, even though they were not even teen agers deserved it? No adults in the car apart from this woman, so there was no excuse for the cops to do what they did.
Maybe you need to promote yourself as being "different from the other blacks". Let us hope that one day your number doesnt come up.
So are you implying that the black woman who was arrested by the cops, who then wanted to frisk her kids, even though they were not even teen agers deserved it? No adults in the car apart from this woman, so there was no excuse for the cops to do what they did.
Maybe you need to promote yourself as being "different from the other blacks". Let us hope that one day your number doesnt come up.
I am not implying anything, and no I am not promoting myself different from anyone, but not everyone has the same experiences in life. I have never been stopped or harassed by the police when unwarranted, and I know of many others in the same boat as me. So maybe it is you that is trying to promote yourself as being "different from other blacks"
Maybe the difference is, you want to be a victim and I don't believe I am one. I really can't say for sure. No matter where I have lived in this country has changed the fact that I haven't been stopped just because the color of my skin.
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