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Since when did we start managing the entire economy and "Walmart-izing" wages, just to suit the folks on Social Security, which is intended to supplement other retirement income anyway? And BTW, let's not forget that improving wages goes right back into the economy in the form of more spending on mainstream consumer goods, turning into more jobs and increased tax revenues …. instead of on tax breaks for the wealthy (who just buy more expensive toys or assets with better tax deductions), or else we build more stuff that just gets sent overseas to go "boom" (as in the case of increased Defense spending).
That may be true on macro level, yet the OP sill has a case with increased costs that impact seniors now, immediately. People on fixed income, who count nickels and dimes to survive. What he claims is that any fluctuations in the economy, like forced (increased) wages, make ripples (actually big waves) elsewhere. How do you suggest to help this social segment?
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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^ ^ Well, aside from the issue of personal responsibility vs expecting the gubmint to take care of everything (including all our retirement needs), one recurring suggestion is to allow retirees to work more without affecting their SS benefits. BTW we should also increase the age for collecting SS, since increased life expectancy is another trend. And we could raise the taxable minimum on payroll taxes, which currently makes low earners pay higher shares of their earnings in taxes than high earners.
Finally, maybe it's time to recognize the reality of just how dependent many folks are on SS now, and let's start treating it less like a "supplement" and more like the "wage replacement" program it's become, by also tying the Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) to any minimum wage increases. Of course we all know how well that initiative would fly, Moderator cut: off topic
How much would prices go up though? That's really the important question. I mean, if it's only a couple of pennies, getting upset is... well, silly (nice way of putting it). I think I recall a study that is Wal-mart rose to $15 minimum, you'd pay a grant total of... 7 cents more (not per item, but based on the average amount total amount people tend to purchase at once). This is not enough to actually be upset, is it?
How much would prices go up though? That's really the important question. I mean, if it's only a couple of pennies, getting upset is... well, silly (nice way of putting it). I think I recall a study that is Wal-mart rose to $15 minimum, you'd pay a grant total of... 7 cents more (not per item, but based on the average amount total amount people tend to purchase at once). This is not enough to actually be upset, is it?
Now, using walmart as an example, I believe your figures are totally wrong.
Let's for the sake of argument, say walmart employs 5000 people in the state of California(perhaps they employ more)
Presently they are paid $9.75 per hour.
That amounts to $48,750 for each hour of work by these 5000 workers.
Now, the minimum wage gets raised to $15.00 per hour.
Now walmart, instead of paying $48,750 per hour ,is paying $75,000 per hour for these 5000 workers.
That is an increase of $26, 250. that walmart has to pay for ONE hour of work.
Now, multiply that $75,000 figure times 8 hours a day, and your 7 cent increase in goods is absolutely absurd.
A more realistic figure would be $10.00 added to your final receipt, not 7 cents.
And that my friend is how most, if not all businesses will handle this increase in the minimum wage.
So, shopping at walmart is going to cost more, so is shopping at the grocery store, putting gas in the car, and the list goes on and on.
We seniors are the real losers in this raise the minimum wage plan.
The simple fact remains that if a minimum wage increase results in inflation, the SS COLA will increase and you'll actually be made whole.
As a nation, a minimum wage is likely to actually hurt the wealthier people the most. While people like to think that boosting people from $7.50 to $15.00 means the people make $15.00 will also double to $30.00, they'll likely also only get to something like $22. The $22'ers will also get a raise, but it'll probably only be to $26. The higher you go, the smaller the raise.
A 100% increase in minimum wage will not translate to a !00% increase in all salaries. At best, it will add $7.5 to your hourly rate, but even that is optimistic. Because the salary increase is not a fixed % across the board, inflation won't increase at the same %. This makes the COLA and price increases slightly more complicated to figure out, but rest assured that even seniors on SS will get a raise if the minimum wage goes up.
Will we be able to pay for that 40 years from now? That's a debate for another thread, but you will definitely get some form of raise today.
The simple fact remains that if a minimum wage increase results in inflation, the SS COLA will increase and you'll actually be made whole.
As a nation, a minimum wage is likely to actually hurt the wealthier people the most. While people like to think that boosting people from $7.50 to $15.00 means the people make $15.00 will also double to $30.00, they'll likely also only get to something like $22. The $22'ers will also get a raise, but it'll probably only be to $26. The higher you go, the smaller the raise.
A 100% increase in minimum wage will not translate to a !00% increase in all salaries. At best, it will add $7.5 to your hourly rate, but even that is optimistic. Because the salary increase is not a fixed % across the board, inflation won't increase at the same %. This makes the COLA and price increases slightly more complicated to figure out, but rest assured that even seniors on SS will get a raise if the minimum wage goes up.
Will we be able to pay for that 40 years from now? That's a debate for another thread, but you will definitely get some form of raise today.
If the past ten years are any indication of the raise we seniors get in ss, like I stated in another post, that raise isn't even enough to pay for a month's worth of toilet paper.
My ss check has only risen $54.00 over a ten year period, so the senior raise is not tied to any minimum wage increases.
As I said, we seniors are on the losing end of this minimum wage business.
And getting back to walmart, not only do they now have to pay more in wages, but the cost of goods they purchase from manufactures and dealers will also rise because their employees are now getting higher wages.
All these increases in cost are not going to be eaten by walmart, or any other business.
They will be passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices for everything.
The senior raise in benefits is not anywhere near what the cost of items are once the wages are increased.
Never has been, and in reality, never will be.
In many retail establishments, the prices wouldn't go up at all. Safeway, Raley's, Winco, Costco have already been paying above-minimum wages for years and this increase would have zero effect on them. Instead, it forces top-feeding retailers like Walmart to have to compete on the same level.
There are some people who will work for $6.00/hr. There are people who won't work for $6.00/hr, but would work for $13.50/hr. If you are an employer who wants to hire the cheapest workers possible, you hire those who will work for minimum wage. So when the minimum wage goes up why would you keep the $6.00/hr workers and not hire the workers who were willing to work for $13.50 before? Presumably these were better workers than the $6.00 workers. In a free market wages reflect the value of the labor to the employer. If you force an employer to pay more than the labor is worth to him, he will just pass the increase on to the consumer. The beneficearies of this program are the state, which gets more tax revenue,and Democrat polititions who get more votes. The losers are the $6.00 workers who lost their jobs, and the consumers who pay more for the products.
This minimum wage debacle is nothing but a circus act put on by states and the federal government to garner votes at election time.
That is a shame because we seniors are going to take the brunt of this in our wallets.
We are coming up on a mid term election next month, so the politicians are out trying to win support by telling these gullible people you are going to get a raise in pay.
Ok, let us take a look at this "raise in pay".
Yesterday you were at $9.00 an hour, and that tv you wanted you couldn't afford because you weren't making enough money.
Now that you have more money to spend, because the minimum wage was increased,you can get that tv.
Sorry Charlie, it doesn't work that way.
That tv you couldn't afford, you still can't afford, because now , instead of it being $600. it is $899.00.
You see, the firm that makes the tv had to give all its employees a government mandated raise, and now it cost the company more to make the tv.
So, the added cost is eating away at the wonderful raise you just received from the government.
Now, multiply that situation with everything you purchase from now on, be it gas for your vehicle, ice cream for your kids, pizza for the family, clothes for all, medical care for you or your family, and the list is endless.
Still think you come out on top?
Again, you have been blind sided by the government in thinking your raise was free and clear, that now you will have more money to spend.
When the cost of everything goes up, you will find you didn't get a raise at all.
That extra $240.00 in your weekly salary will be eaten up in more taxes, and cost of all goods and services.
So figuring that in, your raise is more like $1.50-$2.00 per hour.
Still, that is more than the seniors will be getting, and they will still have to pay the same as you for goods and services.
I think I will have to contact AARP and find out why they haven't stepped up to the plate and gone to bat for seniors on this issue.
Oh Oh, I just remembered, they are so busy recruiting new members,and counting donations,so they don't have time to deal with senior issues.
Thank the Almighty I don't have to rely on just my ss payments, but sadly, many, many do, and when it is going to cost more for everything, it just isn't fair to the senior population to make them pay more, when they did not get a raise.
Obama keeps saying "the poverty level in this country is unacceptable".
"We need to raise the minimum wage so these people can survive."
That all sounds good, but the reality is, along with raising the wage, pricing too will rise.
The only way a raise in the minimum wage would work is if all companies would "eat" the hourly raise their employees get.
Now everyone knows that is never going to happen.
There are ways to fix this socioeconomic problem, but it is going to have to be restraint on both government and business, but again, that will never happen.
Bob, I do believe you are looking at this from your own personal perspective and your own current situation as opposed to what would benefit society as a whole. Perhaps I am wrong on that assumption, I don't know.
But some have brought up some other very valid points that you must consider other than your own immediate situation. The income disparity in our country today is growing expeditiously, and the middle class is eroding. Our standard of living is steadily declining and if the current trends continue, it will not be a pretty picture for our future generations, and especially seniors. It is imperative that everyone be able to save more for retirement, and with not earning a livable wage, this makes future retirement something to be feared as opposed to enjoyed, as only the high wage earners will be able to afford a decent retirement.
The industrial revolution after the great depression brought better jobs, higher incomes, and the economy started to thrive again and rebuild itself. Minimum wage jobs have been depressed now for a very long time. This effect's everyone's income, causes job stagnation, and sometimes deflation. I am a senior living on a fixed income, but I can see the cause and effect of what has been happening in our country. If only the rich and big business are supported by our government, it will not be long before we join the ranks of other countries that we never in a million years thought we would.
A thriving middle class is what makes a country great. If both you and I must experience a slightly higher inflation rate than usual without sufficient raises, we will find a way to adjust. Remember, necessity is the mother of invention.
I may have to sharpen my cooking skills, and learn some new tricks not in my normal repertoire, but I'll make it and chances are so will you. (and if not, Mcdonald's and Wal Mart is always looking)
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