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Old 11-16-2014, 10:17 AM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,235,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
I actually agree with most of what you say. I don't hate America, but it has a lot of problems and I don't know that many consider it the best country in the world anymore. But it's still a "great" country and all countries have their own sets of problems.

What is "It"? America, that is?

IT is a collection of people who have rights, responsibilities and the ability to be a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Nationhood is an abstract concept which is objectified in the people who comprise the nation, for better or worse.

So, America is precisely what WE make IT. If it sucks, we suck. If it is the greatest country on Earth, we make it that way. If it is EVIL, then it is because WE are collectively EVIL in our dealings with the world, or we are apathetic and preoccupied with selfish fears or desires. If it is GOOD, then it is because we are Good.

But what possible benefit is there in running down America, if we aren't making it a criticism of ourselves? But on the other hand, we can't survive as a nation if we obsess with self-hate for the sake of self-hate. If self hate is just a subterfuge to mask a sort of adolescent expectation that someone ELSE must come and save us.

Divide and conquer politics is as old as mankind itself. It's time we quit listening to the "nattering nay-bobs of negativism" and get with the program. America's success or failure hinges on each of us.

America is being held hostage by wicked people who are intent on destroying the social fabric as a means to obtain what they want: power and control. And they will gladly burn the house to the ground to make their point - even if it means they fail ultimately.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:12 PM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,676,657 times
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Separating the people from their government's policies makes for a reasonable foundation for criticism of both. I've been here for my entire life and would have to say that this country certainly has it's warts, but, which nation escapes this observation? None.. So, "we" that is the citizenry, are understandably divided into two groups, those who blindly follow their government's edicts and those who don't.

The former thinks in terms of American as a place of exceptional people because of their government and the latter attributes our collective goodness to the "nature" of a people who've demonstrated their heartfelt duty to each other. Our history bears out that view, way before the government was there to offer help we helped one another, often times doing so while harboring vastly different theological and political views of the other. We have a few things that seem to be peculiarly American, and that is our tolerance for our differences, AND the fact that we've seen fit to make that tolerance part of our law.

The decline in American civility can be seen right here on these boards, and this should be a concern for all of us that see our differences in their proper historical light. I can't think of any other place I'd rather live even though that may be attributable to my social familiarity, I'd venture a guess that most couldn't find a better life in other nations.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Carrollwood, FL
49 posts, read 64,446 times
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I agree with a lot of this. My grandparents are from Southern California, they moved to the mid west to escape the steady high cost of living. I saw my mom have me very young, work her way up, and purchase a house all by age 24. Now here I am, told to go to college my whole life, just graduated this year, moved to the city, only "job" I have found is working at theme park in the finance department (seasonal, working holidays, and no benefits) , making 9 bucks an hour. In the mean time, I have started my MBA, to delay my college loans because I cant afford them, and to keep looking for a better job (applied for close to 500 I would say the past 3 months). All while I watch the kids I went to school with who didn't want to go to college (and it was looked down upon by the teachers), get welding, truck driving, and electrical jobs, no debt, some have homes and new cars. It doesn't seem right, to do the "better" thing your whole life to end up worse off than you started. But whats the saying, "Life isn't fair sometimes"

Also.....in my young life I see almost anyone who talks about voting say "Its the lesser of 2 evils this time around" I have heard this for the past 8 years, when this is the case you know nothing can be going good. I always hear "the state fixes the problems Washington causes", Shouldn't that be the exact opposite?

......I often wonder if America (U.S) hasn't become such a melting pot that no one in higher power knows who to tend to more thus causing a loss of identity and who we are as a culture....

....Just thoughts and in no way to I say my opinions are right or better
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:45 PM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,392,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heeha View Post
"If America sucks, why don't you leave?"

I always like that saying, if you don't like it then leave. why not if we don't like it, why not just make it better, why does everybody have to leave, its like shoot the messenger because he had bad news.
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,827 posts, read 29,939,634 times
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Absolutely not. And I say that while not having any idea where the "greatest country on earth" might be.

I have (and have had) immigrant friends who think the USA is the greatest country on earth, due to the ability to access the American Dream. The American Dream is hard work, with the result being basically only home ownership and a level of sustained prosperity, which seemingly only means having the ability to acquire a bunch of crap. Nowhere in the American Dream does it say anything about making the world a better place, volunteering to help your fellow man, or even ensuring your fellow Americans can achieve the same. It is personal, and selfish.

I am not rich (yet), but we do at least doubly better than the average American household. Even dating back to when I was a poor average Joe, my feelings on how this isn't the "greatest country on earth" haven't changed. Money is only a means of completing tasks, the more you acquire, the more you can complete for yourself.

I know nothing about having connections, and how it would improve one's (or the collective's) lot in feeling better about the country.

The public transportation in this country seemingly leaves something to be desired, but the private transportation is excellent, and well more than sufficient. Emissions are a conscious choice, so I don't understand how one is forced into operating a personal automobile. A "freedom" we enjoy, if you will.

Many of us want what we can't or don't have, and some of us resort to violence as some sort of vindication for the injustice of such. With many of the perpetrators of violence in this country, you could probably hear them say "poor me" about themselves in some fashion if you listen closely enough. Obviously the country wasn't great enough for them, before they had resorted to violence. Crime, and the prevention of it, is something we are doing seriously wrong in this country, and I say this as someone who doesn't live in constant fear of it.

We coddle our children to an extent, not demanding any sort of "the best" out of them. We have to make sure they have their cell phones in class, and we have to drop them off and pick them up from school because we don't allow them the ability to use their own cognition, either out of fear, or convenience. Again, school debt is a conscious choice, it has already been determined that achieving the American Dream is the result of hard work (which I guess, school debt would require you to do ).

We do have a race problem. A huge one. There is no us. Only "we", and "them". "We" don't want "them" living near us. "We" don't want "them" as friends, colleagues, activity partners. "We" don't want "them" marrying our children. Some people see an improvement in this over the last few decades, but if you look closely enough, we still self-segregate as much as ever, either in fear of one another, or in the name of retaining our cultures, instead of melting into a new one.

We live in a nation where war is the ultimate economy builder. We live in a nation where we constantly celebrate our military heroes, yet our reasons for being at war are usually curious at best.

We live in nation where when things are going well, we vote out the politicians who helped make the progress, because we refuse to believe anything positive is happening in our "greatest country in the world". We convince ourselves that things were as bad as they were previously, so we set ourselves back, with the goal of building us forward again, but in a different way this time.

Does anybody notice that when things are going well, social issues become front and center again?

We live in a nation where we are dictated by our religious beliefs, not the common good. We vote based on what the good books say. Some of us even vote with the "imminent" end of the world in mind. We live in a nation where I can legally purchase lethal weapons any day of the week, but I can't buy alcohol or cars in many states on Sundays, I can't play poker online in 47 out of 50 states, and can't bet more than $100 at a time in my state's casinos (yet, I can buy all the weed I want ). All in the name of "the common good", mostly based on religions that we all don't subscribe to. But we all have to follow the laws. So much for freedom of religion.

We live in a nation where everything is a business. Everything. And if it's not yet a business, we'll find a way to make it a business. Because businesses create jobs which create money. Even sick people are a business. Getting them better is not the goal unless there is money to be made.

How can we be the "greatest country in the world", when we have cities like East St. Louis, Camden, Gary, much of Detroit, etc? Do the people living in those cities get to experience living in a great country?

I have opportunities to sarcastically sing "Proud to be an American" at least a few times a month. It usually happens when we've caused, allowed, or condoned some sort of social or economic injustice, either at home or abroad. I feel that our nation focuses on the wrong endeavors, much more of the time than necessary.

I'd prefer a nation that:
-ensures the health of its citizens, without the personal fear of going broke for it
-ensures reasonable social and economic freedom for its citizens, with the appropriate infrastructure to compliment it
-didn't get involved in wars, like ever

Is that too much to ask?
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:57 PM
 
260 posts, read 195,283 times
Reputation: 227
America is now the giddiest "...Greatest Show on Earth!" as dear P. T. Barnum said 'cuz "You ain't heard nothing yet!", which was intoned by the great entertainer Asa Yoelson, in black-face, just once, and wow! what a nugget of truth (if you doubt this ask the media networks as well as the NSA)! For all our Technicolor splendor there is something missing here that all those vivid colors can't quite hide no matter how many CGI beauties and sets are shoved into our faces. If the pharmacy can't cure it maybe a bout of shopping will!

These days there is no true prosperity as everything is plugged in to making the financial system not only richer but undeniably one's taskmaster. We pay our 30-year mortgages and our car loans to keep the ramshackle economy going, our higher taxes and fees to make up for breaks to corporations that may allow us to work for them. In return we get an over-valued home we could lose if we are unemployed, an indispensable smart phone that tracks us/alienates us from those we stand next to, our privacy is eroded to the point of non-existence and everywhere is the belief that money is the closest thing to a God we could ever trust. We are becoming nothing more than serfing revenue generators for corporate conglomerates who find us dispensable and replaceable. Oh, did I misspell 'surfing'? Don't ask anyone under 25 to notice they can't be bothered to learn something so mundane as spelling since they go to college to make bank and not much else! Besides, we have spell-checkers nowadays. Heck, we even have software that will write 1000-page novels nowadays. Meanwhile life passes by nowadays as we twiddle our thumbs across oleo-resistant glass...

Only the immigrant sees America's current greatness and that is (1.) the money, and (2.) the apparent freedom that is diminished daily as an autocracy creeps in to keep everyone on the same page so that remittance of their income flows to maintain necessary debits necessary because they have been made to seem so extremely important. But those are the priorities of a corporation since the only thing that matters to those individuals is the bottom-line: Profit. Power. Monopoly.

America is never going to be what it once was. In its young history it is walking shamelessly toward a horizon other, older places have already seen, but we move toward it not in the old-school ways as they are too obvious at this modern technological gateway we pass thru. Yet that horizon exists and that is where are eyes purposely do not look to, distracted as they are by floating pixels selling comfort in a harsh place.
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Old 11-16-2014, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Houston
940 posts, read 1,902,525 times
Reputation: 1490
See what blows all of the anti America arguments on here away is that for the last 200 years mobs and mobs of millions of people have wanted to come here and many have. And still do. Even Muslims who hate Western Civilization and America want to come here, so you guys are in good company.

Also show me millions and millions of people trying to escape this country and then maybe I will give you the time to read your arguments. There have been millions and millions of people wanting to escape their own countries, and where do they largely want to come? Here. You guys now need to tell me why.

And let me tell you something else. EVERY population that gets in big trouble and gets massacred EXPECTS to be saved by "the Americans". They wail "where oh where are the Americans" if we don't come.

And tell me this guys. Whose navy projects power over the world wide sea lanes and makes it unsafe for high crimes on the high seas?

Now get this. The dollar is the world's reserve currency. Our government receives yearly $1.5+ trillion economic benefit for this situation, because it can create dollars for free which are then bought up by the rest of the world. This makes our military expenses free of charge because the military budget is under $1 trillion. So here we have a situation where the military provides a service to the world protecting trade and populations and the world buys dollars and more than pays for our military. So you know what? It looks like America's position in the world is guaranteed by the present day situation and human nature. In other words America's destiny is the world's destiny and you guys can do nothing to change that fact. Go ahead and denigrate this place; the rest of us laugh at and/or pity you. In other words we're sorry for your sorry situation.
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Old 11-16-2014, 03:29 PM
 
635 posts, read 784,333 times
Reputation: 1096
Default Really

Quote:
Originally Posted by heeha View Post
Years ago, Americas mantra what is was the greatest country on earth. I agree but only if you are rich and have connections. If you are an average joe or poor, America is probably the worst westernized country you would want to live in.

Here are reasons why:
Unless you live in LA, Chicago or NYC, you can forget about public transit which means you will be using your car, wasting gas, creating emissions etc.

America is probably the most violent westernized country. Every day there is a mass shooting somewhere.

America doesn't have a good school system. You have kids graduating from high school and colleges who can't read, write, or do simple math. On top of that colleges are putting millions of students each year into debt so they can use their degree at Starbucks...

I know this is a sensitive subject, but America has a big race problem. Everything revolves around race from college admissions, to hiring, to benefits, to even criminal sentencing. It gets annoying. It truly does and I'm sick of it.

There is no employer and employee loyalty anyone. Companies only use you for what they can get out of you at the least cost and then they spit you out. They can care less about you, or your bills, or your family.

America is the only westernized nation where employers are not mandated to give vacation time. Yes, some companies have liberal vacation policies but the average worker will get one week off per year. What a joke! No wonder you have people dropping dead at age 35.

America is a dysfunctional nation. We get involved in silly wars just to protect corporate Americas interests. The invasion of Iraq was silly but hey, Cheney, Bush, and all of his buddies made billions off of it. A lot of the 9/11 hijackers were of Saudi decent or had Saudi passports. Why didn't we go invade Saudi? Because of oil, that's why. Oh BTW, I'm a Operation Iraq Freedom veteran...

And don't get me started on our political leaders in DC. What a bunch of crooks!

I'm a single male and I have to say, the dating scene in this country is garbage. Basically you have to find your future wife in high school or you can forget about finding a relationship in this country. I don't know what it is about the women here but they think they deserve a model with 30 million in the bank.

So to sum it up, I wouldn't recommend America to anyone. It's vapid, dull, everyone is stressed out and competing in a rat race, and the rich control everything. I would recommend Australia or some of those western european countries. At least in those places you have a social safety net and free healthcare. The quality of life is higher too.

I know someone will reply back and say, "If America sucks, why don't you leave?" Well, I would but you have to remember, it's harder to immigrate to other countries. It's not like here where an illegal can get a free apartment, healthcare, and welfare checks while veterans can't even be seen at the VA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You look around and notice the people are all trying to come here. It's worse in other places.
Our country has problems. But its not that bad. Funny most of our problems have to do with people we elected and the strange ideas they have.
Most citizens don't want any wars of any kind. It sure isnt what the founders imagined.
Debt and spending problems, caused by our representatives.
Vote! i recommend any third party or Libertarian running.
Support term limits.
The people in Europe are having it worse then we do right now. Japan is an example of what we are doing with money.
I would like to think that republicans as a majority may vote on some of the bills that Harry Reid has had on his desk for years. Some are ideas for helping the economy and for health care.
Take facts and figures coming from Washington with a grain of salt.
Prepare yourself the best you can.
Move out of big city's.
Have food and water on hand. At least a month's worth.
Invest in a means to protect you and your family.
Get to know your neighbors.
Pray. It works for me.
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Old 11-16-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,827 posts, read 29,939,634 times
Reputation: 14429
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapie9969 View Post
You look around and notice the people are all trying to come here. It's worse in other places.
Our country has problems. But its not that bad. Funny most of our problems have to do with people we elected and the strange ideas they have.
Most citizens don't want any wars of any kind. It sure isnt what the founders imagined.
Debt and spending problems, caused by our representatives.
Vote! i recommend any third party or Libertarian running.
Support term limits.
The people in Europe are having it worse then we do right now. Japan is an example of what we are doing with money.
I would like to think that republicans as a majority may vote on some of the bills that Harry Reid has had on his desk for years. Some are ideas for helping the economy and for health care.
Take facts and figures coming from Washington with a grain of salt.
Prepare yourself the best you can.
Move out of big city's.
Have food and water on hand. At least a month's worth.
Invest in a means to protect you and your family.
Get to know your neighbors.
Pray. It works for me.
Wouldn't it being "worse in other places" directly play into us being "the greatest country in the world"?

No one said we were the worst, nor even one of the worst, nor even in the bottom half or third. But we could be so much better, easily.

Your last few sentences allude to a huge problem the culture in this country has. The irrational fear of the SHTF. In a nutshell, "go live in a house in the middle of nowhere, get to know your *presumably* equally as nutty neighbors, stockpile food and water, grab and hold onto your gun, and either wait for the SHTF, or for god to come". Unless there's a tornado with less guns than you on its way, none of this is necessary.

Still trying to decipher your comment on Japan.
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Last edited by Oldhag1; 11-19-2014 at 05:53 AM..
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Old 11-16-2014, 05:35 PM
 
610 posts, read 3,015,806 times
Reputation: 804
The basic argument that I was trying to make was out of all the westernized nations, America is dead last with it comes to things like healthcare, quality of life, life expectancy, education, etc.

Yes, from after WW2 until the 1980's people wanted to come here but they are now realizing other westernized countries are better.

That's another thing I don't like about America. Everyone has such a BIG EGO about everything...lol Everyone walks around like they are so great and life here is grand....I say this, keep dreaming....
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