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Old 11-23-2014, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,366 posts, read 6,786,875 times
Reputation: 14412

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I think that, regardless of our position in regard to the nation's current political polarization, true parliamentary democracy -- the type which evolved in the more-advanced nations beginning in the mid-Eighteenth Century -- has faced a number of new challenges which, in turn, evolved from changes in the conduct of daily life; industrialization, increased mobility, and a greater diversity among the population.

On the surface, and on a global scale,I think most of us would agree that the majority of the change has been positive; the number of nations meeting the test of true pluralism -- fewer and more peaceful transfers of power between recognized political parties -- continues to grow, and the globe's remaining tyrannies, large and small alike, face a closer scrutiny by a freer press. But particularly within the United States, the use of political strategies which might have been viewed as unethical a generation ago, continues to rise, and both major parties have resorted to this. (in fairness, however, it should be noted that similar imbalances have erupted att several other points in American history).

So I'd like to see some input with regard to what our membership regards as the greatest threat(s) to true democracy, and what might be done to counter them. I would hope, however, that the subject can be discussed without blatant partisanship, or direct attacks upon specific individuals

Last edited by Oldhag1; 11-24-2014 at 02:25 AM.. Reason: Not needed
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: NW AR
174 posts, read 311,201 times
Reputation: 236
Our democracy is so threatened to the point that we have civil forfeiture happening at all levels of government that even MSNBC has done stories on it and it seems like nobody noticed or cared.
There was a thread here on cd and hardly anyone paid any attention to it here.
When the government is taking homes and money or what ever they want with out any charges being filed against the people that is loosing their property we have ended up with an unbelievable corrupt government on all levels that leaves no hope for democracy.
I am no going to post a lot of links everyone should google civil forfeiture for them selves and learn everything they can for them selves
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
9,865 posts, read 8,003,412 times
Reputation: 11215
I think it's time for a new Federal Constitution. The vastly different fears of the Federalists and Jeffersonian Democrats that each party, in its own way, hoped the Constitution would prevent are now being realized in the US Federal Government.

The Federalists feared "factions"; the Jeffersonian Democrats feared the elite; both feared tyranny. Now we have the tyranny of the wealthy few and a government owned and operated by them exclusively for their benefit.
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:15 PM
 
Location: NW AR
174 posts, read 311,201 times
Reputation: 236
I get a kick out the way anybody thinks the wealthy are hurting this country in any way.
The rich are paying the biggest part of the tax burden and a lot of peoples wages.
Yet the people who don't have as much think the rich should have less.
We still live in a free country if you don't feel you make enough work more.
If you feel you can do better than what is the going wage then work for your self.
It is not easy to become wealthy if anyone wants to it is going to take more than most people are willing to do.
So now we have come to a point in this country where the average person who works 40 hrs a week or less and financed everything and then some want the rich to take care of them.
I personally believe that a fair way to tax every one would be a straight 10 percent tax across the board period for income only.
If the government can not make it on that 10 percent then they are handing out way to much and need to stop.
The people who get back more than what they paid in each year should end.
This thing of taking more from one class to subsidize another is stupid and never should have happened in the 1st place.
Being taxed on income , spending, and saving of every dollar you have is crazy and should have never got to the point it is now.
In a truly free country life is what you make it for your self.
It should never be about what some one else or the government is going to do for me.
Anyone who wants more should go out and make that happen and not be criticized for doing so.
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,366 posts, read 6,786,875 times
Reputation: 14412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
I think it's time for a new Federal Constitution. The vastly different fears of the Federalists and Jeffersonian Democrats that each party, in its own way, hoped the Constitution would prevent are now being realized in the US Federal Government.

The Federalists feared "factions"; the Jeffersonian Democrats feared the elite; both feared tyranny. Now we have the tyranny of the wealthy few and a government owned and operated by them exclusively for their benefit.
No, we don't need a new Constitution; we need to "straighten out a few kinks" -- most of them revolving around the desire by certain groups to increase Federal powers, and the advantages and protection provided to a fortunate few.

Case in point: Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the Constitution allows the Federal government "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian Tribes" (apparently, the Native tribes got somewhat more respect in the days before Jackson -- "the Great Commoner" -- used raw power to exploit and dispossess them); the original intent of this measure was to prevent one state from imposing tariffs and duties on the products of another. It was, in effect, the establishment of a common, and open market -- over a century and a half before Western Europe discovered, and prospered from the same concept.

It was not until a century late that the usual populist suspects drew upon the same language to regulate rates imposed for the transport of freight. After the Supreme Court struck downstate regulation in Munn vs. Illinois, Federal regulation in the form of the Interstate Commerce Commission was imposed, and upheld.

Just about one hundred years later, transportation economists began to take a hard look at the costs of regulation, and the ICC was abolished. After another spasm in which a large portion of the over-structured trucking industry went through bankruptcy, the industry stabilized, and there have been fer complaints in the intervening thirty years.

Beyond the Bill of Rights, and some portions of the post-Civil War amendments intended to guarantee racial equality, the remainder of the Amendments to the Constitution involve the pursuit of power -- the use of Federal authority to provide an advantage to one group or cause at the expense of everybody else.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 11-24-2014 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
25,405 posts, read 14,492,810 times
Reputation: 9208
Democracy is under attack from extremism on both sides of the aisle. This has been brewing since Bush was in office but really came to ahead in the last six years. The Senate didn't want to put through House Bills and the Senate Bills weren't put to a simple vote in the House. Bills that we needed like the Keystone Pipeline, border protection, fixing Obamacare never went to the president's desk so the president had to seek executive actions within the law to do things. I may not like what Obama has done but the way the Democraps and Republicants have done noting in congress, he has little choice but to seek executive orders.
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Old 11-25-2014, 01:59 PM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,026,594 times
Reputation: 10007
I remember the Who's tune that adequately summed up the "transformation" of revolutions that have so consistently failed the working class, it's hard to imagine an attack on what you don't have. Democracy, it comes in many forms around the globe, some work the way they're designed, some more than others, but, all have a component that has allowed the rise of an aristocracy in every nation that practices it's own brand of democracy. Everything that we have today is the result of that struggle with power, you'll only have those rights you're willing to fight for.

Those in the American colonies that fought so hard for their "liberty" were rewarded later with the news that only the "landed" folks could vote, oh, and no women, no black, no Indians, this was the American 'freedom" that was found in the mix of that amalgam of the constitution. Yeah, we can vote------For who? Meet the new boss, looks like the old boss...
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,366 posts, read 6,786,875 times
Reputation: 14412
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
I remember the Who's tune that adequately summed up the "transformation" of revolutions that have so consistently failed the working class, it's hard to imagine an attack on what you don't have. Democracy, it comes in many forms around the globe, some work the way they're designed, some more than others, but, all have a component that has allowed the rise of an aristocracy in every nation that practices it's own brand of democracy. Everything that we have today is the result of that struggle with power, you'll only have those rights you're willing to fight for.

Those in the American colonies that fought so hard for their "liberty" were rewarded later with the news that only the "landed" folks could vote, oh, and no women, no black, no Indians, this was the American 'freedom" that was found in the mix of that amalgam of the constitution. Yeah, we can vote------For who? Meet the new boss, looks like the old boss...
Two hundred years ago, Tocqueville put forth the point that democracy could endure only so long as the uneducated masses could be kept from looting the public treasury via the ballot box; thus property qualifications (and remember that the subsistence farmers and small-town tradesmen who dominated the political and economic life of the day were property owners) were linked to the franchise at the time.

But via the process of elightenment, the electorate was expanded through the emergence of a middle class -- more people were given to recognize that their participation in the democratic process was linked to the recognition that they had more to lose from turning the machinery of the state over to power-brokers and looters, than they had to gain by electing leaders with restraint and foresight.

So far, the process has kept power in balance as the responsible component of the population has grown. But some of the actions by both parties during the past two decades are cause for concern.
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