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I was at a museum the other day and they were talking about the expectations of women vs. men in the late 1980s. Back then there were very strict rules regarding the actions, careers, behaviors, communications and careers of men vs. women. For example, unless it involved work, a woman was not suppose to exercise, sweat or get involved in sports.
Well now it is 2015, and the definition of what a woman can do in society has really changed. It is only a matter of time before women fight in combat right along side men.
Do you see a time in the future that we moved to society and culture where men and women dress, act and communicate pretty much the same? Women would be just like men. Men would be like women. Dress, speak, act, etc. Woman's fashion would end. Women would dress like men do today and eliminate makeup and long hair, etc. Or they find a middle ground where all men and women would basically look the same.
(Gender roles and gender identity is already being discouraged in many European Countries, especially Sweden.)
What do you think?
There will never be such a time because men and women are fundamentally biologically different. These differences were once greatly misconstrued and today are much better understood. You already live in a world where some women prefer wearing jeans over dresses, and some men prefer shopping over watching sports. Once upon a time divergence from the norm was considered an abomination. Today it is acceptable. That doesn't mean there isn't a naturally established 'norm'.
The dystopian future you're implying suggests the typical man is just like the typical woman. I think feminists, conservatives, heterosexuals, homosexuals et all will agree that simply isn't the case in observable nature.
Do you really think social standards dictate the very nature of men and women do in today's society? No offense but you've got a lot of reading to do if that's the case.
I feel like you may have bought into to the backwards idea that societal trends can drastically impact the nature of each human being. Like that I will become gay because my childhood idol is gay... if you think this is even plausible then I politely suggest you exit the Moderator cut: off topic echo chamber and go smell the flowers.
and by you I don't mean OP, just anyone who believes the scenario presented by OP.
I was at a museum the other day and they were talking about the expectations of women vs. men in the late 1980s. Back then there were very strict rules regarding the actions, careers, behaviors, communications and careers of men vs. women. For example, unless it involved work, a woman was not suppose to exercise, sweat or get involved in sports.
Well now it is 2015, and the definition of what a woman can do in society has really changed. It is only a matter of time before women fight in combat right along side men.
Do you see a time in the future that we moved to society and culture where men and women dress, act and communicate pretty much the same? Women would be just like men. Men would be like women. Dress, speak, act, etc. Woman's fashion would end. Women would dress like men do today and eliminate makeup and long hair, etc. Or they find a middle ground where all men and women would basically look the same.
(Gender roles and gender identity is already being discouraged in many European Countries, especially Sweden.)
What do you think?
That sounds like Hell on Earth to me. I LIKE the differences between men and women. I don't want to emulate my lady's mannerisms, nor would I want her doing the same with mine. If we are the same, it seems to me, the laws of attraction ate out the window. There would be nothing to be attracted to. Yick!!!! No thanks...
No. Men and women are made different. Nature made man one way and women another. Men are bigger, stronger and more aggressive. Women are more nurturing an empathetic.
The jobs that most attract women allow them to express these natural inclinations: teaching, nursing, and other kinds of caring. Although there are fine women lawyers and accountants, they are a minority (although not so much in law anymore). There is the occasional woman engineer and mathematician, but women software engineers are almost unheard of.
The differences between men and women were not made by human action but by nature. It is possible that natural selection in the future will favor women who have more male characteristics and less female. But any change that will result will take 7 - 10 generations, at least.
to the OP: no, never going to happen. We are fundamentally, biologically different right down to our DNA. Men have an XY chromosome and women have XX chromosome in every cell in our body. That means that no matter how much you try to force the genders to act and look alike, they can never be alike. There are traits on the X chromosome that women may or may not express depending on whether recessive/dominant, but it will almost always be expressed in men because they only have the one X.
To that point, it is now known that men have more genius genes and also more idiot genes than do women. Women are certainly intelligent, certainly sometimes geniuses or idiots, but men have more at both ends of the bell curve. Probably it's a result of adaptation, where males needed to be out there experimenting and opportunistically foraging for food which requires creativity and spacial coordination and recklessness as well as strength and speed. Men tend to have these traits in abundance, versus females who are adapted over millions of years to be safe back in the cave protecting the young.
Today, you could argue that men no longer need a lot of these traits such as superior strength and aggression, yet we still have them and they're not going away any time soon probably, unless we discover ways to reprogram people genetically.
I do think we should have legal equality and women should not be kept from certain professions just because of their gender. That said, I think we should continue to have separate locker rooms and we should allow the existence of men's clubs and women's organizations and all-girl schools and so forth. I would not want mixed locker rooms; for chrissakes you want to be able to undress in peace.
I do think some societies take the difference to an extreme and I'm very much against this sort of thing (a UN school in Gaza):
Women are clearly the more esthetically pleasing of the species. I don't know why women would want to look like men except as a rejection of feminine culture.
Amen! They are, indeed. What's not to like about women? They are soft and , for my part, I find my lady's presence very calming and soothing. Her voice can penetrate even my deepest rage, and douse it like a bucket of water on a fire. By the same token, she often needs to be bolstered by male type strength. A rock to grab hold of, so to speak. Our differences are what makes us strong. We NEED them.
To my point of view, this "gender norming" theory is pure junk science. Driven by radical and bitter people, with an ax to grind. I like my lady, just as she is. A WOMAN. Female. My opposite counterpart that balances the equation. This is as it is meant to be. Its not nice to mess with Mother Nature.
Although I agree that the number of roles in society that women now participate in and th acceptance thereof has increased substantially in the last few decades, the notion that in the late 1980s, "unless it involved work, a woman was not suppose to exercise, sweat or get involved in sports." tells me you have no conscious memory of the 80s.
Anyway, while gender roles are largely cultural and there is room to change what is and is not acceptable, they ultimately stem from biological imperatives for the survival of our species.
To clarify what that means, there is a reason that if a man and a woman have conceivad a child, the man who fathers it can go be a warrior, but the woman who is pregnant with the child cannot (and safely bring the child to term and nurture the newborn).
On the other hand, gender role proscriptions such as whether a man or woman can be a healer (physician) has been quite malleable across cultures and time.
Finally, in terms of gender expression through cultural ephemera such as clothes, mannerisms, etc, there have been examples of varying levels of gender divergant and asexual styles, in various places and times, but ultimately, going back to the biological imperative, signaling ones suitablity for mating will probably keep people from becoming totally asexual in their superficial style and behavior choices.
Here is the women's 200 meter Olympic Trials final in 1984.
You might notice FloJo in lane 7, one of the most famous female athletes of the last century. She won three olympic gold medals at the 1988 Olympics.
Title IX was passed in 1972. Coincidentally, there was a unisex fad in clothing at the same time that was the forerunner of the "metrosexual" fad of 20 years ago. Don McLean (the American Pie guy) released a 1972 cut titled "Narcissisma" that celebrated the joys of dating a woman who looked just like him.
The real gender role shift has been economic, as women have become increasingly involved in supporting the family while men are increasingly marginalized.
who ever told you that about the '80's was an idiot
strict rules??? not at all- a woman was not suppose to exercise???
this is just idiotic
in the early 80's the lean and low fat craze came along with exercising!!!!
in the late 70's and early 80's are when more women got out and exercised more..
and I believe this had to do more with women being more independent .....having a career of their own,,,,,,and also a two income household, allowed more disposable income to join a gym/fitness center
the attitude you described was more of women in the 50's and 60's the height of the baby boomers,,,women were mothers of kids and more kids ,,,
In the '50s and '60s (not apostrophe placement) both my mother and father worked full time. Dad farmed 150 acres on evenings and weekends, Mom managed to keep everyone fed, and the kids all had chores and worked summers and weekends. During the school year I was up at 6 AM every day to milk and feed before heading to school. By the time I graduated from high school I had saved $5000 from my summer jobs, which was a bundle of boodle in 1965.
I think there were probably regional differences. In they South and the East they were still trying to emulate Victorian aristocracy, but in the West women were pioneers and worked right along side the men. As soon as they were out of diapers, the children did too.
Because "gender diversity", according to most conservative-minded people, encompasses only the classic gender stereotypes and nothing else.
I would love that gender stereotypes go away. I can't count the number of times women have take advantage of my XY gender to ask me to carry their heavy stuff (glorified mule), even though I'm not built strongly like a typical guy. Nobody has ever offered to assist me when they see me struggling with carrying or moving something, because they think a guy doesn't need help.
At work, the 5-gallon water jug needs replacing, and the males are a slim minority in the nursing field.
Go ahead! Ask this "stronger" member of the Male Liberation Movement to replace that water jug! Particularly when I've spotted other females changing it!
Let's see! Which line will I use this time to avoid replacing it?
"If a woman can swim from Cuba to Florida..........."
"If a woman can swim the English Channel............"
"If a woman can work as an auto mechanic..........."
"If a woman can help fight a war in Iraq................"
"If a woman can be a police officer today..............."
One of the nurses at work: I'm an old-fashioned kinda woman! That's a man's job!
Yup! Quite the old fashioned kinda woman! She supports a deadbeat boyfriend who has no desire to work for a living!
One thing you'll never-ever-ever find, is men becoming liberated enough to wear dresses! OK, for women to dress like men, but don't even think about it!!! A man wearing a dress!
Last edited by Oldhag1; 01-06-2015 at 06:07 AM..
Reason: See DM
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"Late 1980s" is already showing up in a museum exhibit? Gimmeabreak.
