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And that's just a partial list. In all, by both giving material support and marshaling volunteer activities among our thousand members, our church does an extraordinary amount of work in the community without proselytizing. All for $1.4 million. As someone who sat on the board and saw the books every month, I knew the money was spent prudently and definitely without a hint of extravagance. I defy you to find a government agency that does more with less, no matter what lazy stereotype you cling to. You can't do it.
Cpg, Perhaps folks here would not be advocating taxing churches if all of them did the good work that yours does.
It's the abusers, like the TV preachers with private jets, that make people cynical. Do you think that churches should build massive edifices or instead build more modest buildings and spend the money saved on good works?
I would suggest a compromise: taxation with deductions for the expense of programs like you describe, a limit on the deduction for individual salaries, and an exemption for a modest physical plant. A church that collects enough money to build a cathedral is wealthy enough to afford the tax.
Cpg, Perhaps folks here would not be advocating taxing churches if all of them did the good work that yours does.
It's the abusers, like the TV preachers with private jets, that make people cynical. Do you think that churches should build massive edifices or instead build more modest buildings and spend the money saved on good works?
I would suggest a compromise: taxation with deductions for the expense of programs like you describe, a limit on the deduction for individual salaries, and an exemption for a modest physical plant. A church that collects enough money to build a cathedral is wealthy enough to afford the tax.
Trust me, they make other Christians cynical, too.
If my church had to pay taxes, we would cease to exist. Unlike cpg's church, our budget is 75K - 80K a year. Like cpg's church, we have traditionally taken unpopular stands on social issues. We make our parish hall available six days a week to AA and NA groups, which costs us about $3K a year in heating/utilities and stuff like toilet paper and paper towels, but we feel it's important to give them a place to meet. Our building is tiny and will be 150 years old next year. And further, there are people sitting in our pews who are often not welcome in other churches but who are believers and are grateful to have a place where they can come and be themselves.
No one is rich in our parish. I probably have one of the highest incomes, and I'm certainly not wealthy. However, these people still manage every week to squeeze out of their budgets items for the food pantry and toiletry items for the homeless shelter.
Yes, the extravaganza churches get all the notice, but there are many more like mine that quietly provide help to their communities, and slapping them with taxes would mean the end of their existence in those communities.
Religions should be tax free. Just like other charitable institutions some are frauds, set up to benefit their founders. It is up to would-be donors and members to check them out before contributing. And it's up to regulators to crack down on abusers.
Am curious, if churches are tax free, then do the ministers/pastors pay taxes? We know they get some type of salary and most get a nice house to live in. Are they getting a tax free salary? Who pays for their food, medical expenses, clothing, insurance, etc. to run a household?
Is not a church a business? A church has customers, the customers give money in the collection plate, or sends in a check to the church office. The church has other employees: office staff, maintenance staff to name a few, and they get paid. . . do they get tax free paychecks?
The church: do they get free utilities? Do they pay property taxes, etc.?
My opinion is that they should pay taxes. Why shouldn't they? Course I suppose the congregation could just meet in a park or on the beach and do away with the building and not worry about paying taxes on the property.
And btw, in a former debate category the Mod cut my comment with the reason that in the debate section you must type more than one or two sentences. Curious why there are many comments in this thread of just a sentence or two and they have not been deleted by the mod? Um?
Trust me, they make other Christians cynical, too.
If my church had to pay taxes, we would cease to exist. Unlike cpg's church, our budget is 75K - 80K a year. Like cpg's church, we have traditionally taken unpopular stands on social issues. We make our parish hall available six days a week to AA and NA groups, which costs us about $3K a year in heating/utilities and stuff like toilet paper and paper towels, but we feel it's important to give them a place to meet. Our building is tiny and will be 150 years old next year. And further, there are people sitting in our pews who are often not welcome in other churches but who are believers and are grateful to have a place where they can come and be themselves.
No one is rich in our parish. I probably have one of the highest incomes, and I'm certainly not wealthy. However, these people still manage every week to squeeze out of their budgets items for the food pantry and toiletry items for the homeless shelter.
Yes, the extravaganza churches get all the notice, but there are many more like mine that quietly provide help to their communities, and slapping them with taxes would mean the end of their existence in those communities.
That's why I say make allowances for congregations like yours, which are truly non-profit. I have a real problem with a "church" building that costs tens of millions of dollars not incurring any property tax. How is that fair to a retiree with a small house who gets by on Social Security but still owes property tax?
Cpg, Perhaps folks here would not be advocating taxing churches if all of them did the good work that yours does.
It's the abusers, like the TV preachers with private jets, that make people cynical. Do you think that churches should build massive edifices or instead build more modest buildings and spend the money saved on good works?
I would suggest a compromise: taxation with deductions for the expense of programs like you describe, a limit on the deduction for individual salaries, and an exemption for a modest physical plant. A church that collects enough money to build a cathedral is wealthy enough to afford the tax.
Well, you raise a good point. But, as I stated in my original post, the megachurches comprise a tiny fraction of all the churches in this country. Most churches do their work in humility and with a bare minimum of funds. So to tax them is to really to snuff out their existence.
It's not even a mega church that has extravagant tastes. To me, if I see the preacher in a 3 piece suit with alligator boots and gold rings on, that's a warning sign. I've seen guys go to places like Home Depot, JC Penney's and Guitar Center and flash out their tax exempt form. I can understand Home Depot for building supplies for the church and maybe even Guitar Center for audio equipment for the church. But when I see someone do that at Penney's bringing a stack of clothes up to the counter?
I also wonder why there are so many churches in bad, crime infested areas. Drive along the southside of Chicago further south of 35th street and you'll see what I mean.
Well, you raise a good point. But, as I stated in my original post, the megachurches comprise a tiny fraction of all the churches in this country. Most churches do their work in humility and with a bare minimum of funds. So to tax them is to really to snuff out their existence.
And yes, clergy do indeed have to pay taxes.
I know clergy pay taxes. I think someone else asked about that. I do have a problem with the church supporting an extravagant lifestyle through perks that are not taxable to the clergyman.
The tax could be structured so that churches like yours are not damaged.
The larger churches and many of the smaller ones are run like businesses. They have full office staffs with accountants and managers. Many do not operate as nonprofits. I was in the office of a large local church working on something several years ago and could hear them conducting business. They were calling members and telling them they needed donations to keep funding up blah blah blah. Basically outright lying to them. They also operated profit generating day care and private school classes for religion on certain days. I knew for a fact that this particular church had millions in the bank through connections. We had discussed how they make so much money and give out profit sharing to the higher ups so of course they want to get all the donations in they can. I found it to be pretty disgusting how they were using their members for profit.
They simply should have to pass the same criteria for non-profit status as any other 501 (c) (3). If they can't meet the standard, they should pay taxes.
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