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I think teen pregnancy is down from years past isn't it? Still I know what the OP is referring to.
I know a family who happens to be poor and stupid. Yes that is pretty harsh but the stuff they do boggles the mind.
Their teenage daughter has 2 friends who both had babies and it sounds like a stereotype but the girls are white and the deadbeat baby daddies are black. Those girls and their babies have a tough life ahead of them.
What I see mostly are young men who are aspiring rap stars and others who play video games because they hope to one day design them. Young women seem intent to mess around until Prince Charming comes along to sweep them off their feet. It is nice to dream but what a let down when reality sets in LOL
Moderator cut: -
As far as the original argument, women from lower socioeconomic backgrounds will always have kids in a cavalier manner. What else do they have to do? As long as Uncle Sam is there to foot the bill, the irresponsibility will continue.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 02-06-2015 at 09:34 AM..
Reason: It crossed to line
Working at a welfare office I am well aware of what the OP is saying. We see many young women (girls really) with multiple babies with multiple baby daddies. They rely on public assistance (cash, food stamps which is now called SNAP, medicaid, energy assistance, housing assistance, basically EVERYTHING assistance) all courtesy of the tax payer.
They usually come from unstable, fatherless families where the mother was also a teen mom and is also receiving public assistance and/or Social security disability. They seem to see no way out of the lifestyle because this is all they know. All their friends, family, associates etc fall into this same dead end life style. Since they are all on subsidized housing most of them live in the projects where once again this is all they see surrounding them. No one goes to college, no one dreams of a different life, popping out babies is the norm. It is truly sad but we are not helping the situation by continuing to pay for them. All we do is enable them to continue the sad downward spiral...
Now I do realize that not EVERY young mom falls into this pattern but what I described is the norm where I work.
Yeah and the problem now is that we are in too deep to just turn off the flow of welfare. That would result in a lot of dead young women and babies and we as a society are too evolved to consciously do that. So were stuck.
If everyone saw things the way that you and I do - the world wouldn't be such a screwy place!
I don't understand your question. What makes you think that people who have children out of wedlock with guys that won't take responsibility wanted this for their children?
Amen.
And it is not like they didn't have a choice.
Suddenly it has become too hard not to have sex with deadbeat guys.
I think the link to that book looks like a good start to understanding.
We have a segment of society that does not plan. They just do. They do this and that and react, no planning. If they love they have sex, they were raised like that and they copy it. However the subsequent generations may make different choices.
I personally know of a woman from a family where her Mom had 4 children from 4 different men. This was back in the 1950's thru the 80's. One of her children became a mom at 17. She had only one child who is now in her 30's. The 30 year old has not had any kids because she knows she does not want to continue the trend. Of the other kids of the original 4, two have one kid, one has 3 kids, one has no kids. So people can learn.
I also know of another family that worked in childcare and they loved kids. The mom and dad had 3 or 4 kids originally in the 1950's thru the 70's. Their kids each had 2-3 kids and all those kids starting having kids young. One of teh grandchildren was sick of it all and last time I checked in the year 2000 or so she was remaining childless till she was older.
All the people I mention are white folks. The first example they are or became poor because of addiction, the 2nd they were upper middle class or became that way from all the money from childcare.
Here is another thing, currently a woman might feel like she cannot have an abortion if she chooses to because of the political climate so she has the kid and then society blames her. So go figure she cant' win for losing.
Last edited by creepy; 02-06-2015 at 09:16 AM..
Reason: add words
Working at a welfare office I am well aware of what the OP is saying. We see many young women (girls really) with multiple babies with multiple baby daddies. They rely on public assistance (cash, food stamps which is now called SNAP, medicaid, energy assistance, housing assistance, basically EVERYTHING assistance) all courtesy of the tax payer.
They usually come from unstable, fatherless families where the mother was also a teen mom and is also receiving public assistance and/or Social security disability. They seem to see no way out of the lifestyle because this is all they know. All their friends, family, associates etc fall into this same dead end life style. Since they are all on subsidized housing most of them live in the projects where once again this is all they see surrounding them. No one goes to college, no one dreams of a different life, popping out babies is the norm. It is truly sad but we are not helping the situation by continuing to pay for them. All we do is enable them to continue the sad downward spiral...
Now I do realize that not EVERY young mom falls into this pattern but what I described is the norm where I work.
Moderator cut: Against Great Debates guidelines. Let's look at it this way for a moment you say "It is truly sad but we are not helping the situation by continuing to pay for them." Unless you mean something progressive like a way to get them off this system then I cannot agree that we should not pay for them. Maybe it was just you did not take time to write it out thoroughly but if you mean we should stop cold turkey paying for the poor women and children to have food and shelter, I cannot agree. That is cruel.
Imagine if tomorrow we just decided to say no and close all assistance no matter the need because we are sick of the cycle and the paying for these "deadbeats:. What would happen? Would we see toddlers and babies with mom's on streets crying and asking for food. Would we get so callous like in Brazil that we would go to areas where we see children homeless living in gangs of children and rape them and kill them for sport? I for one do not want to become that kind of society. I would rather give them money for now. I would rather research the issues and see how much a drain they really are and redo the system.
I think too many mean spirited people see and notice all the bad things like the guy in the checkout line buying lobster with his food stamp card. I want to see the reality not magnify the bad there is.
You sound like it's just a transaction. When men don't use condoms and women don't use birth control and she ends up pregnant, both are responsible for that child. So none of this "I'm not going to support the child because I can't see them" crap.
Both are responsible for the child, but then why is it that they don't get equal custody often even if the father wants it?
Sometimes they do, but more often than not the woman gets full custody, with the man just getting the kid every other weekend..
My uncle paid over $250,000 to drag his ex wife through the courts to get full custody. He hired a private investigator and everything to follow her so he could have PROOF that he needed to prove she was an unfit mother.
THEN, even though he gets full custody (she gets them every other weekend) it somehow still works out that he pays her child support for the every other weekend that she gets them.
Like I said, women are favored so much in custody battles that it's pathetic. Most men couldn't have the chance to be equivalent fathers even if they wanted to.
Both are responsible for the child, but then why is it that they don't get equal custody often even if the father wants it?
Sometimes they do, but more often than not the woman gets full custody, with the man just getting the kid every other weekend..
My uncle paid over $250,000 to drag his ex wife through the courts to get full custody. He hired a private investigator and everything to follow her so he could have PROOF that he needed to prove she was an unfit mother.
THEN, even though he gets full custody (she gets them every other weekend) it somehow still works out that he pays her child support for the every other weekend that she gets them.
Like I said, women are favored so much in custody battles that it's pathetic. Most men couldn't have the chance to be equivalent fathers even if they wanted to.
You don't think the way custody works out is fair so you're advocating that men ABANDON their children? Seriously?
I agree there is a lot of unfairness toward men and that ought to be addressed, but meanwhile there are living, breathing people who need a father and are going without. That's not ok.
For the most part people are doing what they know. Very few people, from whatever background, stray from the mentality in which they were raised. Poorer people are not different from anyone else in that respect. Just like the children of the middle class march lockstep into college, white collar jobs and marriage for the most part, the children of the chronically poor repeat the patterns they've seen all their lives. There are always exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.
Anyway, I think it conforms to the logic of that world. It that world, making do with some combination of a low paying job, government assistance and/or a side hustle is the way life is. I mean as long as you are eating everyday and have a steady roof over your head you are winning. There is also an underlying (justified) fear that men will eventually be murdered or go to jail even when they try hard not to, and the ones that don't will likely bounce around in low paying jobs forever. Still people have hope, and they couple up often hoping for the best but reality being what it is it hardly ever works out that way. So we get what we get.
i go around town and i noticed many young women have babies and the dads are not around. ive met some and they say their dad sucks at providing for their kids. some of them ive met the dad has not came around in a few years, but its like a trend or something. why are people not puting importance on being a family and sticking together, instead some like to put others things in priority. what kind of world do we live in today ?
Well, from what I've seen in recent years, "single parenthood" is being pushed as the "ideal" situation.
I'm sure it's not the same in every part of the U.S., but around here girls are told about all the freebies they can get as long as they do not get married, and there's even a state website for 'teen dads' that's been promoted with a t.v. commercial stating "you don't have to live with your child to have a good relationship with him."
So what chance do young people have when virtually everyone they come in contact with is telling them to be irresponsible?
i go around town and i noticed many young women have babies and the dads are not around. ive met some and they say their dad sucks at providing for their kids. some of them ive met the dad has not came around in a few years, but its like a trend or something. why are people not puting importance on being a family and sticking together, instead some like to put others things in priority. what kind of world do we live in today ?
Why do the men get a pass for being the ones impregnating all these women? Why can't they be more responsible? Although I do agree, I wonder when people will finally take having kids more seriously.
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