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Whites should not go to the "back of the pack" (whatever that means).
Humans should start treating one another with equality, but that is impossible.
What does this have to do with the existence of white privilege?
Are you finally admitting that White privilege does exist by implying Whites are at "the front of the pack"?
You misread what i wrote. I said "back to the pack" not "back of the pack" Those are two entirely different things.
I don't believe there's white privilege, but there is "non white disadvantages". I don't believe its a "privilege" to be treated normally by society. White's aren't getting special treatment from society, they're getting treated normally, nothing extra and nothing special, they're not handed anything. If a non-white is "held back" from being all they can be, that has nothing to do with "white privilege" and everything to do with the disadvantages that non whites have in certain situations.
Call it what you wish but being born to privilege is a fact of life whether this privilege is being born into wealth, being born to educated parents, being born to parents with strong socio-economic networks, being born in a region with strong educational systems........or being white and male.
I get your point. But, I think there should be an acknowledgment that there is a difference between "tangible" advantages like wealth and elite social connections (held by a few) and "intangible" advantages like being born a male or white (widely held characteristics). I think this is where a lot of the reasonable disagreements arise.
If you have money you can use your wealth to buy better homes, admission to private schools, etc. If you have an uncle who is a lawyer or banker he can help you land a prestigious internship at his firm, etc.
On the other hand, being a member of "the majority group" merely conveys some intangible advantages relative to minorities. All things being equal, a straight person or a white person has some general advantage relative to minority groups. But, there are tons of straight or white people in society, so no white or straight person is going to get a job or be given a house primarily because they are a member of the majority group. It is all very asymmetric, being gay might be a big disadvantage, but being straight isn't necessary a big advantage.
As someone who wants to move the conversation along, I see the benefits of making a distinction between the two. I think this is why people have so much trouble with the idea of a tangible advantages like wealth being equated with intangible advantages like race or gender.
In my mind, being wealthy is a "tangible privilege" while being straight is an " intangible relative advantage".
What exactly is "white privilege?" Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is? My grandfather, A Pole, came to this land dirt, dirt poor. Just like my grandmother, an Italian. When they were raising my father and his siblings, some days they would skip meals to conserve food. My father grew up dirt poor. But he worked hard at school and made something of himself so I and my siblings would have a better life than he did coming up.
What exactly is "white privilege?" Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is? My grandfather, A Pole, came to this land dirt, dirt poor. Just like my grandmother, an Italian. When they were raising my father and his siblings, some days they would skip meals to conserve food. My father grew up dirt poor. But he worked hard at school and made something of himself so I and my siblings would have a better life than he did coming up.
Is that what you call "White privilege?"
So it's been explained several times in this thread if you go back and read, and no it does not mean what you think it means. It has nothing to do with how hard your ancestors worked nor does it seek to negate that.
What exactly is "white privilege?" Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is? My grandfather, A Pole, came to this land dirt, dirt poor. Just like my grandmother, an Italian. When they were raising my father and his siblings, some days they would skip meals to conserve food. My father grew up dirt poor. But he worked hard at school and made something of himself so I and my siblings would have a better life than he did coming up.
Is that what you call "White privilege?"
"WP" its what's used to make whites feel guilty about something that has nothing to do with them. Its also a phrase that makes people think somehow whites get "handed" things and don't have to work for them. If whites truly had privilege, they would get things handed to them. Instead, whites have to work just as hard as anyone to get where they want to go.....if a person feels "held back" by their race, it has nothing to do with whites and everything to do with their own disadvantages, perceived or otherwise.
It is more appropriate to focus on White Achievement.
Whites have done more in the world than any other race, good and bad. But the good vastly outweighs the bad. Almost every improvement in almost every field of human endeavor is the result of White Innovation. Agriculture, industry, art, philosophy, politics all have been driven forward largely by White Hands. By comparison, the other races have been mainly spectators and emulators. (Although the Oriental races have contributed their own philosophies and art.)
White Privilege exits only in the minds of those who can't or won't recognize White Achievement. It's a superficial explanation offered either in ignorance or denial of the World created by Whites.
As far as the bad things go, they have been indulged in as frequently and thoroughly by other races as much as by Whites. All the sins are known to all the races. The Four Horsemen have ridden in Asia and Africa as well as Europe. White Guilt is no greater than Black or Brown Guilt.
They are two faces of the same coin. White Privilege is merely the face of White Achievement. If Whites hold positions of authority and power, it is because they have achieved them.
White engineers, white doctors, white businessmen are the best in the world (Maybe not engineers. Orientals are mighty good ones.) The best rise to positions of leadership in every field. Looking at it on the surface, one only sees Whites in high places and assumes it's because they snuck or cheated to get there. But that isn't true. They got there because they were better at what they did than others.
Look at sports. Almost every sport is dominated by people recently descended from Africans. They are better at every sport I can think of than Europeans and even more better than Orientals. It's not because of African Privilege. It's because their natural athletic ability, given free reign, got them to the top.
Cream rises not because it and milk are the same density but because it is less dense and gravity will have its way.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-02-2015 at 07:48 PM..
Reason: Removed deleted quote and direct response to it
I'm curious why some people are so insistent on using the phrase "white privilege"? IMO, it's just a rhetorical distraction from getting white people to focus on the disadvantages racial/ethnic minorities face in society?
IMO, there are two basic problems with "white privilege": 1) It creates a distracting semantic debate over the meaning of "privilege" Privilege can be a loaded term. Privilege in common usage is so associated with a economic wealth and elitism. While most most elites in the county are white, most white people are not economic or social elites. In stead of focusing the ways minorities can be disadvantaged in society, many whites (particularly less educated, lower income white with limited social connections) will just be pissed off as being portrayed as a members of a homogenous, wealthy and powerful elite. Particularly at a time, when there are many high status and income persons of color.
2) White privilege is an academic theory that has strong ideological/philosophical underpinnings and serious people can take issue with some of the underlying pieces, even if you accept the basic premise. No serious scholar takes issue with the idea that minorities face certain disadvantages and white people have certain advantages in society. But even many people who agree with the basic premise take issue with certain aspects of the notion of "white privilege"
At the end of the day, the whole "White Privilege" debate seems to be a rhetorical distraction that needlessly distracts from more productive conversations on how to help end racial discrimination. Broad based economic measures to combat poverty/encourage opportunity and legal/policy efforts to fight outright discrimination and the milder/but more widespread problem of stereotyping and implicit biases would seem to be far more productive.
I think it is more properly called white skin privilege, and it is not an academic theory. It is a real, actual, measurable phenomena. If someone wants to make it into a semantic debate over the meaning of privilege that person is simply utilizing a derailing tactic because the discussion about race has become uncomfortable. In that case, the solution is not to take the term of white skin privilege off the table, but to go back and properly define the term to ensure that it is understood so everyone is on the same page.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-02-2015 at 07:51 PM..
Reason: Removed icon
I think it is more properly called white skin privilege, and it is not an academic theory. It is a real, actual, measurable phenomena. If someone wants to make it into a semantic debate over the meaning of privilege that person is simply utilizing a derailing tactic because the discussion about race has become uncomfortable. In that case, the solution is not to take the term of white skin privilege off the table, but to go back and properly define the term to ensure that it is understood so everyone is on the same page.
I think its pretty easy to understand. There is no "white privilege" that exists. The 'way" that whites get treated by society as a whole is the way that you would expect as "normal treatment". If another race gets treated "Worse" it doesn't change the treatment the whites receive, their treatment stays exactly the same, it doesn't change and get better.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-02-2015 at 07:51 PM..
Reason: Edited quote
I think its pretty easy to understand. There is no "white privilege" that exists. The 'way" that whites get treated by society as a whole is the way that you would expect as "normal treatment". If another race gets treated "Worse" it doesn't change the treatment the whites receive, their treatment stays exactly the same, it doesn't change and get better.
It sounds by this that you either recognize that "Other's" than white may be treated differently or You don't understand why "Other's" are so upset?? Can't figure out just what you are stating here??
BTW~~ Not all Other's are "non-white" yet their station in life is lesser..aka POOR..and for some reason politicians cut their programs and creates a dis-enfranchisement for them too...SOme call them Takers or losers or worse..Worthless and need to pul their collective pants up SMH..
Poverty is NOT only OTHERS..Poverty hits everybody..Not Just Liberals but Conservatives..Yet their Base continues to try and paint it's ALL on Liberals that are the takers and low-lives..and THEY (republican's) are the makers and know those in need have to take responsibility while trickle down affects keeps getting put forward.. Proven Wrong like decades ago!!
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