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Old 02-24-2015, 01:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,666 posts, read 64,140,481 times
Reputation: 68453

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The alternative to welfare would be for the state to provide make-work jobs to everyone, as was the case in the Soviet Union. Many jobs there were thinly-veiled forms of welfare. The popular saying in those times was, "The government pretends to pay us, so we pretend to work." I've seen very high-level government officials there rarely even show up for work. I suppose there might be a few senators/representatives in state and federal government who pull that off, but not many. In any case, trust me, you wouldn't want to live in a country like that.
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
25,405 posts, read 14,492,810 times
Reputation: 9209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The alternative to welfare would be for the state to provide make-work jobs to everyone, as was the case in the Soviet Union. Many jobs there were thinly-veiled forms of welfare. The popular saying in those times was, "The government pretends to pay us, so we pretend to work." I've seen very high-level government officials there rarely even show up for work. I suppose there might be a few senators/representatives in state and federal government who pull that off, but not many. In any case, trust me, you wouldn't want to live in a country like that.
Maybe not but it worked in the 1930s with the New Deal work programs. At worst we just improve the infrastructure of our great nation. Then again, that quirk w wasn't just pretend...
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,496,291 times
Reputation: 10428
I don't know of or see people on welfare every day. But then I'm college-educated, upper middle class, and that's the majority of people in my social circles as well.

From what I've heard, getting on "disability" is the new welfare. I do have a couple friends who have mothers on disability and their disability seems to be lack of education. And it certainly doesn't pay them enough to live anything more than a poor, ghetto lifestyle.

Many people weren't raised right. They didn't have opportunity, weren't provided with motivation and support, and were taught poor habits. That's a very difficult cycle to break out of, although a few exceptional people do break the cycle and have the personal motivation to do better. But most don't. I'd rather the government pay them enough to not be out on the streets robbing people.
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:46 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,666 posts, read 64,140,481 times
Reputation: 68453
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I don't know of or see people on welfare every day. But then I'm college-educated, upper middle class, and that's the majority of people in my social circles as well.

From what I've heard, getting on "disability" is the new welfare. I do have a couple friends who have mothers on disability and their disability seems to be lack of education. And it certainly doesn't pay them enough to live anything more than a poor, ghetto lifestyle.

Many people weren't raised right. They didn't have opportunity, weren't provided with motivation and support, and were taught poor habits. That's a very difficult cycle to break out of, although a few exceptional people do break the cycle and have the personal motivation to do better. But most don't. I'd rather the government pay them enough to not be out on the streets robbing people.
The mod has said we're to stick to the topic of welfare, not other forms of assistance. But to respond to your comment about disability, you'd be surprised how many cases of disability are due to failures in the medical system. Doctors aren't educated to diagnose and treat some very simple diseases, and many doctors simply do not take their patients' concerns seriously, and do not practice preventive medicine. I've seen people go on disability for something so elementary as parasites that have been allowed to run rampant in their system. I'm told that doctors stopped testing for parasites sometime in the middle of the 20th century, and no longer know how to do that.

I could go on with examples, but it would be off-topic. The incompetent and dysfunctional medical system and medical education in this country is behind a significant percentage of the public assistance cases.
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:41 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,099 posts, read 3,388,567 times
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Well said, eloquent and thoughtful as well!
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:58 PM
 
514 posts, read 418,879 times
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I think a lot if not most of you all have great points. ultimately it's the abuse of the system that frustrates me so much, there is a need for welfare absolutely. A more perfect welfare system would be a tiered system that with educational and/or real life work skill requirements would motivate people to want to better themselves. I realize a lot of people is poverty have negative learned behaviors as a result of their environment. Maybe it's just a dream, I just feel more could be done to empower people want to break the cycle. My hope is to better these people in the long run, not to hurt them.
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
1,017 posts, read 553,174 times
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I don't mind as much when American citizens need a hand, but I am absolutely against handing it out to those who are here illegally.
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
20,958 posts, read 15,275,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemencia53 View Post
eh, if he is doing drugs, he probably won't be around very long to "enjoy" his existence. So, is he still alive?
For what it's worth, he committed suicide in 2013.
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:00 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,342 posts, read 2,609,796 times
Reputation: 3814
Any stats on how many folks exploit welfare vs. those who use it the way it was "intended"? There are always going to be stories how it genuinely helps some folks, while others do indeed get only slightly less than working folk for no work.


Also, given articles how corporations in America are able to pay little, no taxes, or even get money back due to hiring accountants who know how to exploit loopholes, are we ever going to go after them for being "irresponsible" as well?
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,317 posts, read 4,439,198 times
Reputation: 9731
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02blackgt View Post
Here's an idea. Make welfare for able bodied normal people just like student loans. Non dischargeable debt that sticks through bankruptcy with discharge clauses for meeting certain requirements. Call me what you want but it's pretty Moderator cut: language I'm paying back 50k in loans with interest for bettering myself while people are living debt free off the gubament. I'm not complaining abt paying back loans, I took them. I'm complaining abt living in a society that provides many no incentive to better themselve. If I lost my job today I promise you I would be hitting every job opening site non stop until I got a new one.

Also, you can say I am picking on single moms, that isn't my goal. I'm picking on people who make poor choices consistently because they know they will be taken care of. There is no reason any teenager or 21 year old should have multiple kids. Try contraception or maybe even closing your legs.


From what im reading, It appears that you made a bad decision with your educational planning and are jealous that you are not being helped in this.

You "opened your wallet" for 50k just like some people "opened their legs" (to use your misogynistic, crass and overplayed metaphor) and made a baby.

I understand the anger. I felt a lot of this when home owners were bailed out even though I did not make a foolish decision in that realm to buy an overpriced home. No one reimbursed me for the stocks that i lost. That was frustrating. But why did I not see millions outraged over the help that irresponsible homeowners received?

Everyone makes poor decisions. I'm happy that when babies are involved, we try as a nation to care for them. They didn't ask to be born. They probably should NOT have been born, but they were.

I hope you are pro-choice by the way because you are certainly not pro-life. (Pro-birth maybe, which is the most evil twisted stance on the issue. Yet unfortunately, a very popular one, especially by males.)

.
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