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As far as cheap, that has to go to natural gas - which is why many utilities (in the USA at least) are vastly expanding their natural gas infrastructure.
That is not necessarily true, they are moving to gas becsue of the uncertainty over the regulations for coal. Natural gas plants are generally more efficient and less costly to build but that does not account for the price of the fuel itself. The lowest it's ever been was about $2MMBtu back in 2012 after the boom was in full swing. It rose back to about $4 and was hovering there for many years. It's about $3 now and expected to rise again. Correspondingly coal has been steady near $2/$3 the entire time becsue it's not subject to the market variables as much as gas.
A great deal of the pollution you see in Chinese cities is the result of domestic heating, you need a lot of energy to keep more than 1 billion warm. The same issues existed in many western cities like London up until the 50's and 60's before they banned residential coal heating. Here in the US in particular cities in the east it was not an issue becsue of anthracite coal which does not produce soot when burned. Pittsburgh and surrounding areas would be an exception to that but only because of the steel mills using soft coal.
It's not just that though. If you watch the documentary they show what run away government subsidizing industry can do to create environmental catastrophe like how China's steel industry is helping to environmentally destroy China because of the Chinese Communist Party propping it up against all logic. Then there are the cars made in China none of which pass China's own emission standards and are creating a bunch of toxic smog themselves. Then you have all the other state run businesses that don't follow the countries own environmental standards and what you end up with is the most toxic nation in the history of the world.
Respectfully, government money has been paid out to cleanup many areas of the country that have had problems.
The coal industry is the only industry in this country that has been tasked with cleaning up it's own mess and others. Every ton of coal mined has a fee applied that is used for reclamation of abandoned property some which can be more than a century old. This would include other mining sites without a spec of coal for hundreds of miles.
All I can say is I'm glad this thread sparked so much response. Well, not all.
My own thoughts are that nuclear power is the best energy source ever.
It's problems have been inflicted upon it by people who have a larger agenda. They are the same people who wanted the US to lose in Vietnam and who cheered whenever the VC or NVA won a battle, which I'm not sure ever happened. I remember distinctly a meeting I was at at a prestigious univerity's alumini association where one of the attendees said in response to a question about his and like minded peoples' opposition to coal, said, "Wait to you see what we do to nuclear."
I knew and know these people: their hatred for all that might make life better, in furtherance of the Leninist maxim of "the worse, the better." Their hatred for everyone and thing has not abated, despite history's refutation of their creed.
All I can say is I'm glad this thread sparked so much response. Well, not all.
My own thoughts are that nuclear power is the best energy source ever.
It's problems have been inflicted upon it by people who have a larger agenda. They are the same people who wanted the US to lose in Vietnam and who cheered whenever the VC or NVA won a battle, which I'm not sure ever happened. I remember distinctly a meeting I was at at a prestigious univerity's alumini association where one of the attendees said in response to a question about his and like minded peoples' opposition to coal, said, "Wait to you see what we do to nuclear."
I knew and know these people: their hatred for all that might make life better, in furtherance of the Leninist maxim of "the worse, the better." Their hatred for everyone and thing has not abated, despite history's refutation of their creed.
They are with us today.
You lost all credibility with this one sentence in bold. Not everyone who is against nuclear energy is a wingnut, Communist, or what-ever slur you want to label on the Left and to be frank some Lefties are for Nuclear. And to say that the U.S. never lost a battle in 'Nam is straight up lunacy.
Actually, this entire post of yours is straight up crazy talk and I do not believe for one minute that anyone you "know" who is like that would actually give you time of day since they would think you are just as nutty as you claim to them to be.
No matter what crude is going to be here for our lifetime. Even if less gasoline; we need to replace over other 13K essential products made from it. Long ways to go. Crude is now 100% used natural product.
The coal industry is the only industry in this country that has been tasked with cleaning up it's own mess and others. Every ton of coal mined has a fee applied that is used for reclamation of abandoned property some which can be more than a century old. This would include other mining sites without a spec of coal for hundreds of miles.
You lost all credibility with this one sentence in bold. Not everyone who is against nuclear energy is a wingnut, Communist, or what-ever slur you want to label on the Left and to be frank some Lefties are for Nuclear. And to say that the U.S. never lost a battle in 'Nam is straight up lunacy.
Actually, this entire post of yours is straight up crazy talk and I do not believe for one minute that anyone you "know" who is like that would actually give you time of day since they would think you are just as nutty as you claim to them to be.
The vast majority of the anti nuclear movement comes from the political left in the United States. The Republican party tried for years to get nuclear power more widely used but it was blocked by the democratic party. The reason why the Democrats blocked increasing nuclear power is because they weren't concerned about the environment or the science behind nuclear energy or whether it was safe or not. The Democrats blocked nuclear power because they were pandering for votes from people who got scared and overreacted to an extremely terrible movie and Chernobyl which didn't have the safety features US nuclear power plants do. In short the left in the United States pushed the United States back decades from getting off fossil fuel for generating electricity. History is going to show this as one of the dumbest things if not the stupidest thing the democrats have done during the last few decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN
However is the coal industry cleaning up after the coal is used? NO!
Look at just one of the problems caused by Duke energy and their track records.
Honest question: While it is true that nuke is "clean" generation, I haven't recently (or ever) heard any viable ideas on how to store the waste. What is/are the new technology/ies that will handle this very real concern?
And is solar is so worthless, why are utilities fighting "roof-top" solar so aggressively?
"China Syndrome" actually was an intriguing movie because it pointed out something you don't seem to mention, and that is corporations will always seek the least-expensive solution, even if there are risks involved. Nukes are not fail-safe any more than any other technology. There is no single solution; it will take a wide range of ideas to wean us off greenhouse gases.
Doesn't surprise me that this has turned into yet another coal vs. fission vs. petroleum vs. solar/wind/tidal.
How about fusion? Let's toss a bunch of money at that and see if we can clean the energy slate and start from scratch. Lockheed Martin says they're close. Granted, there has been SOMEONE saying they're close to cracking fusion for decades. But if this happens, many of our planet's problems go away. Desalination becomes economically feasible. That means irrigating inarable land. That means refilling reservoirs.
That also means an immediate drop in emissions as every large ship and train switches over immediately. Air travel would become slower but clean as well, if Boeing et. al. went back to propellers on a fusion-powered electric plane.
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