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If a cop told you to jump off a bridge would you do it? You must because the police is giving you an order? It's the law of the land, right? If a cop is raping you are you not supposed to resist because a cop is giving you an order? That's ridiculous.
People have every right to ignore invalid orders. Cops should not putting their hands on others. Cops only have a right to use deadly force if a person is attacking them or is motioning a gun at cops. People have every right to resist a false arrest and even during a legitimate arrest, people have every right to resist their head being bashed into the ground or their arms being twisted into their shoulders. Cops should not be man handling people except if a person is engaging in violence against another. Just because a cop wears a badge doesn't mean he is entitled to more rights and to be treated differently than a member of the public.
I wish cops, prosecutors, judges and members of juries started holding cops accountable for their actions. A cop is not God. They should command the same respect as a regular member of the public and be judged the same.
I was reading a different thread and someone implied that certain people aren't taught respect and are culpable if they disobey a direct order from police.
Is everyone required to obey a direct order from police? Across the board?
Depends on the order and the circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal
We have an angry, drunk, potentially violent person mere inches away from an officer who is totally refusing every direct order given. Good thing we have the video.
Shouldn't the officer have pulled his weapon? Shouldn't she have been shot dead?
What's the equation?
Refuse direct order = ???? automatic deadly force?
Are you serious? For the encounter in that video you linked to? I'm a former LEO, and that situation actually looked fairly tame to me. Well, not tame, but nowhere near the kind of situation you'd shoot someone for.
The law allows cops to shoot in order to prevent the escape of a suspect likely to be a serious danger to the public. That is a particular type of situation with its own rules, and not the situation you have in this video. So that leaves the use of deadly force when the officer is defending against the likelihood of being killed or seriously injured (or protecting another person from this), exactly the same circumstances where any citizen could use deadly force in self-defense.
The situation in this video does not appear to be remotely close to that kind of dire situation. This looks like little more than a pain in the rear for the cop involved. (The potential for danger is always there, and an officer needs to be on guard for this, but no such situation appears to have developed in the video.)
First of all, we don't live in a police state, the person does have rights when dealing with the police. Unfortunately a lot of police don't understand the rights of a citizen when trying to enforce the law, this leads to confrontations which are unwarranted and sometimes leads to tragic events.
Second, the police can not stop you without "probable cause", you do not have to show ID if your not being detained. You can ask the police officer why he stopped you and if you are being detained, if he has no "probable cause" then you can just thank him for his concern and walk away. Remember, being suspicious is not a reason to stop you or detain you, it is not illegal to look suspicious.
You're a little off on some of this, including your use of the term "probable cause" as the certainty needed for a cop to stop you, briefly detain you, ID you, etc. In that case you're talking more about "reasonable suspicion." You're correct, though, that they can't lawfully detain you just because you look kind of hinky in a general way.
However, a cop may see something that legitimately looks suspicious even when it turns out you're not up to anything. In other words, innocent actions may appear suspicious enough to amount to reasonable suspicion since the cop doesn't know at first whether you're up to something.
People can make a mistake in believing that just because they're innocent of any wrongdoing the police have no right to detain them. Not always true if a person's actions appear suspicious to someone who doesn't know exactly what he's up to. My experience in law enforcement was that many people thought they knew a lot about the law when they often were way off.
We pay our policemen to uphold law and order. Once a cop determines that an arrest must be made, he HAS to make that arrest. Shouting loudly and making a fuss will not convince a cop to throw up his hands and walk away. He can't.
Yes, we have given our police force the power to arrest anyone who refuses a direct order. The cop has certain responsibilities to prevent him from arresting everybody in sight. If you disobey that Direct Order, you will go to jail and tell your story to the judge.
We pay our policemen to uphold law and order. Once a cop determines that an arrest must be made, he HAS to make that arrest. Shouting loudly and making a fuss will not convince a cop to throw up his hands and walk away. He can't.
Yes, we have given our police force the power to arrest anyone who refuses a direct order. The cop has certain responsibilities to prevent him from arresting everybody in sight. If you disobey that Direct Order, you will go to jail and tell your story to the judge.
Our system works!
Except when you get an arrogant cop who just wants to throw his weight around.
As an example, a story I have posted before, I was out for a walk in my neighborhood at 10 pm and I walk with a cane,. An officer pulled up and wanted to see my ID and wanted to know why I had the weapon(my cane). When I started to give him my ID, he made me wait for backup. There was probably a dozen other people walking in the same area. Why he decided to harass me, I have no idea. I was very cooperative. I know for a fact, that I could have told him no, on the ID. Or I could have made him call his sergeant, who just happened to be my brother, but I didn't. He was very hateful and arrogant, guess he decided that a 66 year old white man, who needs a cane, was an easy target.
They should shoot every suspect with some knockout drug and have the "meaningful conversations" after the person is handcuffed and at the police station. The additional police training could be to make sure the knocked out person doesn't fall on their head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea
The police have the right to protect themselves and their other officers. If you comply, you are unlikely to be "roughed up". If you come at them, and they think you may mean them harm, all bets are off. If you are stinking drunk and can't manage to stand or walk when told, I seriously doubt they'll shoot you, but they won't just leave you be! You'll be manhandled and arrested!
If you are arrested by mistake, then the place to take up the mistake is with the court...not the cops!
Exactly the opposite of what your rights are in the United States. People with attitudes like this will be the final death knell of freedom in America.
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 03-24-2015 at 08:17 PM..
Its was the supreme order that ruled that no one can resist arrest even if unlawful. Looking at constant video of now people act even getting a speeding ticket ;I won't be a cop. If a police officer order me I am do it; I am not that stupid and if told I am under arrest ;I turn and put my hands together. Court is the place and certainly safest; to resist that arrest.
I think the question is fairly simple. A person is walking along, minding their business, and the police stops them and gives them some sort of "order."
A common belief is that the citizen is just supposed to obey the order blindly instead of exercising their basic right to ask "what seems to be the problem here" or "why am I being stopped?" Asking a question is construed as an affront to the "respect" the public owes the officer and in turn, the officer has the right to use deadly force.
So, what is the equation when the citizen doesn't have blind, immediate obedience? Should every citizen expect to be shot dead upon being stopped by the police? Or does every citizen have the right to at least inquire as to the nature of the situation?
I have no feeling of obligation to "obey" any commands from a a cop, just because he/ she is a cop. If , in MH judgement, the officer has reasonable cause to issue me a "command", I will probably cooperate, depending on the officers ..demeanor, and reasonable cause to be engaging me, which I would want at least a plausible, if cursory, explanation for.
This thing, that LEOs are to be instantly obeyed, without question, is nonsense. However, it seems to be a risky bjsiness being even the least bit...uncooperative. LEOs are, I cfeasinhly, demanding total compliance. & enforcing it, with any of the pain delivering tools bristling from their "tactical harness". Makes for a conundrum, at times.
I have no feeling of obligation to "obey" any commands from a a cop, just because he/ she is a cop. If , in MH judgement, the officer has reasonable cause to issue me a "command", I will probably cooperate, depending on the officers ..demeanor, and reasonable cause to be engaging me . . .
There is a potential problem with this. Your behavior may reasonably appear suspicious to a cop, who knows only what he witnesses, not what is going on in your head.
You better know the law really well before you decide to resist an order from a cop because the instruction does not seem reasonable to you. Unless you think you're dealing with a really strange situation, and a truly psycho cop who means to hurt you no matter what, the smart move is to comply.
We pay our policemen to uphold law and order. Once a cop determines that an arrest must be made, he HAS to make that arrest. Shouting loudly and making a fuss will not convince a cop to throw up his hands and walk away. He can't.
Yes, we have given our police force the power to arrest anyone who refuses a direct order. The cop has certain responsibilities to prevent him from arresting everybody in sight. If you disobey that Direct Order, you will go to jail and tell your story to the judge.
Our system works!
Going to jail isn't the question.
The question is disobeying the direct "order" and having the response be deadly force. Being shot on the spot. In the video, the woman is waving here hands wildly. How did the officer know she wasn't going to reach for a weapon? She's obviously not respecting the officer.
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