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Old 03-19-2015, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,409 posts, read 6,817,046 times
Reputation: 14473

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That's not his real name, of course; but his story is sadly typical of the collateral damage of a society which seems determined to let the unmotivated escape responsibility.

Justin was born out of wedlock, an early casualty of the failure of our culture to link the sexual revolution with education and sensible behavior.. He escaped the abortionist because of his mother's Catholicism and the dedication of his aunt, a non-cloistered nun.

For the first few years of his life, his mother led him through several unstable households, in several states, as her relationships with a series of irresponsible men changed. As he became more and more of a burden, she eventually threw him out of the house when he turned eighteen. but that didn't make the problem go away.

That was the start of a long pattern of semi-vagrancy, drifting from one locality to another, and occasionally sleeping under Mom's porch; a series of broken jobs (because "they don't pay enough", and most of them actually expected him to work), betrayal of anyone who tried to help -- sometimes leaving them with extra bills to pay, and occasional petty thievery, or tax and Unemployment fraud (but not big enough to result an any serious charges).

A little research on this individual turned up penny-ante arrests in no less than eight states, and a couple of cases of credit card abuse and identity theft.

The one trait tht has manged to keep Justin out of 'heavy-duty" jail is enough street sense to stay away from drugs, but I wouldn't be suprised to learn of a little "muling". He's also smart enough not to cause another pregnancy like his own, but doesn't seem to be able to decide whether he's straight or gay -- (turned up in San Francisco a few years ago and was promptly flown home courtesy of the police to clear up a few legal issues) but the market for "go-go boys" is limited.

Justin is 43 years of age, white, and Anglo-Saxon surnamed, and at this point, it's almost certain that he'll become more of a burden on all of us. I have no idea what his failure to live responsibly has cost us all in dollars and cents, but even if he were confined and compelled to earn it back, I doubt if it could be recovered.

But the point I seek to make here is that there are tens of thousands more like Justin in some way: some are more-attuned to the "gangsta" culture, and of course, many will either end up in the prison system, or make an early trip to the cemetery.

But until fairly recently, our society had much tougher vagrancy laws, and a system of local justice that made these guys' lives a lot less pleasant at an earlier stage. In many areas, the local news media also helped make them easier to identify and exclude.

The problem continues to fester; how should we deal with t?

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-19-2015 at 02:09 PM..
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Old 03-19-2015, 01:16 PM
 
9,125 posts, read 5,681,850 times
Reputation: 5272
Military sounds like the perfect place for 18 year old Justin. It is a much better plan than sleeping under the porch.
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Old 03-19-2015, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,120 posts, read 12,746,433 times
Reputation: 7223
The military can only "whip you into shape" if you want to be in shape! Most likely, this sort will get into the military, and then be booted out for non-obedience
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Old 03-19-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
7,645 posts, read 5,134,442 times
Reputation: 16479
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea View Post
The military can only "whip you into shape" if you want to be in shape! Most likely, this sort will get into the military, and then be booted out for non-obedience
Agreed. You have to be at least partially motivated to get anything positive out of time spent in the military. They are not there to make a useful human being out of you, they are there to make a soldier out of an already productive human being.
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Old 03-19-2015, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,625 posts, read 8,544,824 times
Reputation: 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by catdad7x View Post
Agreed. You have to be at least partially motivated to get anything positive out of time spent in the military. They are not there to make a useful human being out of you, they are there to make a soldier out of an already productive human being.
You hafta be VERY motivated to be in the military. Basic training is very challenging, not easy to get through. Justin would would never get through it.
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,409 posts, read 6,817,046 times
Reputation: 14473
TO OUR MODERATOR: This thread was originally intended for the Great Debates forum; posted here by mistake; please move it if possible, and thanks!

I agree with the comments above that, unlike in earlier times, the military can no longer be used as a juvenile disciplinary institution. "Boot camp" facilities would probably have been appropriate for our little problem, but he was already past the age of 21 by the time they evolved.

But perhaps it would be appropriate to create a new "motivational" agency -- something between the military and the Peace Corps, VISTA, Job Corps, etc. toward which marginal young offenders could be directed -- and from which they could not escape until they either settled their obligations, wised up, or burned out.

And I remain firmly convinced that the identity of the delinquents should be made part of the public record, that the record should not be expunged upon attaining a certain age, and that the financial cost of the individual's behavior be calculated and documented.

The idea here is not simply to run up a debt that can never be satisfied and leave the individual in perpetual peonage. But it is intended to underscore the point that each and every bad decision has consequences, and that those consequences mount up.

There are among us some individuals who "need" to be broken; and likely, some who never can be. Anyone familiar with the film Cool Hand Luke can probably relate to that. But if an individual is so warped that he is determined to choose between either running up a huge debt to the taxpayer or destroying himself, the responsible members of society should not be obligated to subsidize that behavior.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:37 PM
 
535 posts, read 515,726 times
Reputation: 1057
The military is not a good place for Justin or for anyone for that matter. The military training starting with boot camp is all about brainwashing and desensitizing kids to violence and commotion. The DIs produce robots who don't think but just follow orders. Of course sooner or later a lot will snap. Just like with cops (and a lot of cops were in the military) soldiers have the highest rates of domestic violence and alcoholism. Them being part of a mighty organization makes them physcopathic in all other areas where they put their desires above the public.

Maybe Justin could have benefited from learning a skill like carpenter, masonary, plumbing or etc. Prison is not a place of keeping society safe but about torturing and abusing people the government wants to torture and abuse. The justice system hasn't worked with Justin because the justice system is not about helping people and only produces even more violent and shady people because of being cast aside by society because of a record. A lot of laws are abusive and bad and infringe on freedom. Whatever the case the people who produce the smut and brainwash kids in schools and on TV to live a life of sin and have broken families are responsible. There is no cure.
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:23 PM
 
Location: I'm around here someplace :)
3,633 posts, read 4,259,203 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
That's not his real name, of course; but his story is sadly typical of the collateral damage of a society which seems determined to let the unmotivated escape responsibility.

Justin was born out of wedlock, an early casualty of the failure of our culture to link the sexual revolution with education and sensible behavior.. He escaped the abortionist because of his mother's Catholicism and the dedication of his aunt, a non-cloistered nun.

For the first few years of his life, his mother led him through several unstable households, in several states, as her relationships with a series of irresponsible men changed. As he became more and more of a burden, she eventually threw him out of the house when he turned eighteen. but that didn't make the problem go away.

That was the start of a long pattern of semi-vagrancy, drifting from one locality to another, and occasionally sleeping under Mom's porch; a series of broken jobs (because "they don't pay enough", and most of them actually expected him to work), betrayal of anyone who tried to help -- sometimes leaving them with extra bills to pay, and occasional petty thievery, or tax and Unemployment fraud (but not big enough to result an any serious charges).

A little research on this individual turned up penny-ante arrests in no less than eight states, and a couple of cases of credit card abuse and identity theft.

The one trait tht has manged to keep Justin out of 'heavy-duty" jail is enough street sense to stay away from drugs, but I wouldn't be suprised to learn of a little "muling". He's also smart enough not to cause another pregnancy like his own, but doesn't seem to be able to decide whether he's straight or gay -- (turned up in San Francisco a few years ago and was promptly flown home courtesy of the police to clear up a few legal issues) but the market for "go-go boys" is limited.

Justin is 43 years of age, white, and Anglo-Saxon surnamed, and at this point, it's almost certain that he'll become more of a burden on all of us. I have no idea what his failure to live responsibly has cost us all in dollars and cents, but even if he were confined and compelled to earn it back, I doubt if it could be recovered.

But the point I seek to make here is that there are tens of thousands more like Justin in some way: some are more-attuned to the "gangsta" culture, and of course, many will either end up in the prison system, or make an early trip to the cemetery.

But until fairly recently, our society had much tougher vagrancy laws, and a system of local justice that made these guys' lives a lot less pleasant at an earlier stage. In many areas, the local news media also helped make them easier to identify and exclude.

The problem continues to fester; how should we deal with t?
I don't have all the answers and don't claim to, but it seems the beginning of this story says a lot- why in the universe are people these days so opposed to adoption? It was not too many decades ago that it was the preferred option for girls/women who didn't get married. But these days it seems teens are pressured to keep their babies under any and all circumstances- and it's not necessarily in anyone's best interest.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:39 AM
 
9,125 posts, read 5,681,850 times
Reputation: 5272
Great replies against him joining the military. I never said he would join to "shape up" or anything like that. I would think when one is presented with either living on the street or doing something with their life they would choose the latter.
According to the replies he should just continue what he is doing and be a burden to society.
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Old 03-20-2015, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,063 posts, read 1,730,702 times
Reputation: 1901
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
That's not his real name, of course; but his story is sadly typical of the collateral damage of a society which seems determined to let the unmotivated escape responsibility.

Justin was born out of wedlock, an early casualty of the failure of our culture to link the sexual revolution with education and sensible behavior.. He escaped the abortionist because of his mother's Catholicism and the dedication of his aunt, a non-cloistered nun.

For the first few years of his life, his mother led him through several unstable households, in several states, as her relationships with a series of irresponsible men changed. As he became more and more of a burden, she eventually threw him out of the house when he turned eighteen. but that didn't make the problem go away.

That was the start of a long pattern of semi-vagrancy, drifting from one locality to another, and occasionally sleeping under Mom's porch; a series of broken jobs (because "they don't pay enough", and most of them actually expected him to work), betrayal of anyone who tried to help -- sometimes leaving them with extra bills to pay, and occasional petty thievery, or tax and Unemployment fraud (but not big enough to result an any serious charges).

A little research on this individual turned up penny-ante arrests in no less than eight states, and a couple of cases of credit card abuse and identity theft.

The one trait tht has manged to keep Justin out of 'heavy-duty" jail is enough street sense to stay away from drugs, but I wouldn't be suprised to learn of a little "muling". He's also smart enough not to cause another pregnancy like his own, but doesn't seem to be able to decide whether he's straight or gay -- (turned up in San Francisco a few years ago and was promptly flown home courtesy of the police to clear up a few legal issues) but the market for "go-go boys" is limited.

Justin is 43 years of age, white, and Anglo-Saxon surnamed, and at this point, it's almost certain that he'll become more of a burden on all of us. I have no idea what his failure to live responsibly has cost us all in dollars and cents, but even if he were confined and compelled to earn it back, I doubt if it could be recovered.

But the point I seek to make here is that there are tens of thousands more like Justin in some way: some are more-attuned to the "gangsta" culture, and of course, many will either end up in the prison system, or make an early trip to the cemetery.

But until fairly recently, our society had much tougher vagrancy laws, and a system of local justice that made these guys' lives a lot less pleasant at an earlier stage. In many areas, the local news media also helped make them easier to identify and exclude.

The problem continues to fester; how should we deal with t?

I thought this was a Justin Bieber thread. lol. What to do about the Justin you described? I wonder if he has any dreams ? Any talents and skills he is not using? Any interest in anything constructive? Find out what it is and encourage it. Some homeless shelters can actually pay for some small degrees as well. Maybe all Justin needs is a push in the right direction.
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