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I was reading a different thread and someone implied that certain people aren't taught respect and are culpable if they disobey a direct order from police.
Is everyone required to obey a direct order from police? Across the board?
We have an angry, drunk, potentially violent person mere inches away from an officer who is totally refusing every direct order given. Good thing we have the video.
Shouldn't the officer have pulled his weapon? Shouldn't she have been shot dead?
What's the equation?
Refuse direct order = ???? automatic deadly force?
Police should be better equipped to recognize a real threat and not be so easily startled and taking things so personally all the time. You cannot let your individual pride get in the way of a job whose only purpose is to protect the public from harm. Sometimes it is safer for the public if you just let the "jay-walker" run away, instead of speeding down residential streets in a high speed chase with guns blasting.
Cops are just people, but maybe we should pay and train them more since obviously they have a difficult job that requires split-second decisions that could completely alter someone's life.
Too often, Cops escalate situations when it is not needed.
With the Police work stoppage in New York, we saw that when arrests/tickets went down substantially crime did not increase at all. Therefore it is only safe to assume that Cops spend too much time generating revenue for the State, and not enough time actually working to curtail violent crime and seek out those that are violent fugitives.
First of all, we don't live in a police state, the person does have rights when dealing with the police. Unfortunately a lot of police don't understand the rights of a citizen when trying to enforce the law, this leads to confrontations which are unwarranted and sometimes leads to tragic events.
Second, the police can not stop you without "probable cause", you do not have to show ID if your not being detained. You can ask the police officer why he stopped you and if you are being detained, if he has no "probable cause" then you can just thank him for his concern and walk away. Remember, being suspicious is not a reason to stop you or detain you, it is not illegal to look suspicious.
The police have the right to protect themselves and their other officers. If you comply, you are unlikely to be "roughed up". If you come at them, and they think you may mean them harm, all bets are off. If you are stinking drunk and can't manage to stand or walk when told, I seriously doubt they'll shoot you, but they won't just leave you be! You'll be manhandled and arrested!
If you are arrested by mistake, then the place to take up the mistake is with the court...not the cops!
The police have the right to protect themselves and their other officers. If you comply, you are unlikely to be "roughed up". If you come at them, and they think you may mean them harm, all bets are off. If you are stinking drunk and can't manage to stand or walk when told, I seriously doubt they'll shoot you, but they won't just leave you be! You'll be manhandled and arrested!
If you are arrested by mistake, then the place to take up the mistake is with the court...not the cops!
Seems logical to me, why can't so many others figure that out ?
A cops decision making is all about damage assesment and nowadays fear of liability.
Reece W is angry and drunk. Public intoxication is against the law. if she tried ot get into a car to drive or if she had started kicking or throwing punches the officers response would have been much different but not deadly.
If she pulled a gun or went for the cops gun that is a different story.
Police treat women different then men when encountering them. A 110 pound Reece W is a small threat compared to a 275 pound Mike Brown.
Police are employed to keep the public safe and sometimes that includes keeping the criminal safe from himself.
Cops have a tough job. It has to be tough to pick up the dregs of society, have them kick, spit, curse you out, then pee and throw up in your cruiser then the next day the judge gives them a slap on the wrist and sends them home.
A cops decision making is all about damage assesment and nowadays fear of liability.
Reece W is angry and drunk. Public intoxication is against the law. if she tried ot get into a car to drive or if she had started kicking or throwing punches the officers response would have been much different but not deadly.
If she pulled a gun or went for the cops gun that is a different story.
Police treat women different then men when encountering them. A 110 pound Reece W is a small threat compared to a 275 pound Mike Brown.
Police are employed to keep the public safe and sometimes that includes keeping the criminal safe from himself.
Cops have a tough job. It has to be tough to pick up the dregs of society, have them kick, spit, curse you out, then pee and throw up in your cruiser then the next day the judge gives them a slap on the wrist and sends them home.
Maybe your intent is good here. It is flawed, however (cop treating women differently)!
They should shoot every suspect with some knockout drug and have the "meaningful conversations" after the person is handcuffed and at the police station. The additional police training could be to make sure the knocked out person doesn't fall on their head. You are probably aghast upon reading this but if it meant more women and minorities would be hired because physical strength wouldn't be as important, (heck you could pull out a joint and smoke it waiting for your perp to wake up), you know you'd jump on it. The "if we could just talk to them" advocates could take their psychology degrees and go to work for the police department at the police station interviewing suspects about their lousy childhood, whether they were breast fed and their addiction to Twinkies and Road Runner cartoons...and, you know, maybe squeeze in a few questions about the dismemberment, throwing their kid off the bridge or shooting up the wedding party at the reception...but only if they feel like talking.
I think the question is fairly simple. A person is walking along, minding their business, and the police stops them and gives them some sort of "order."
A common belief is that the citizen is just supposed to obey the order blindly instead of exercising their basic right to ask "what seems to be the problem here" or "why am I being stopped?" Asking a question is construed as an affront to the "respect" the public owes the officer and in turn, the officer has the right to use deadly force.
So, what is the equation when the citizen doesn't have blind, immediate obedience? Should every citizen expect to be shot dead upon being stopped by the police? Or does every citizen have the right to at least inquire as to the nature of the situation?
The police have the right to protect themselves and their other officers. If you comply, you are unlikely to be "roughed up". If you come at them, and they think you may mean them harm, all bets are off. If you are stinking drunk and can't manage to stand or walk when told, I seriously doubt they'll shoot you, but they won't just leave you be! You'll be manhandled and arrested!
If you are arrested by mistake, then the place to take up the mistake is with the court...not the cops!
I think the debate lies not in this basic premise, but in just who is judged to "mean them harm" and require "manhandling" and to what degree of manhandling for what offense.
It really all lies in what assumptions an individual cop makes. And when similar behaviors result in different assumptions that tend to be more severe based on class, race and /or gender lines it raises eyebrows.
A drunk belligerent white guy in a trailer park gets different handling that a drunk belligerent white elite college student, or at least that's the perception. Is that really fair? That's the question at hand it seems.
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