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Yeah.. I trust the government that fingerprints wouldn't be stored.
Honestly, if you don't have an ID.. How do you accomplish anything? You can't even cash a check without an ID.
My point is.. Don't throw the laws away, as you seem to be advocating.. Fix them. If the elderly can't get out to get an ID, they call the registration office and the registration office sends someone to them. If someone doesn't have a birth certificate, which I find difficult to believe for anyone born in the past 70 years.. Have people in the registration office whose job it is to help these people. I don't want to see them excluded from the vote, either. I *DO* want to see honest elections. Voter ID is the way to make that happen.
There is, has been and will be a fair amount of voter fraud in this country. Remember the woman who voted twice for Obama and was really, really proud of that fact? She was sentenced to 5 years.. There was a nun who voted for someone who was dead.. The 1960 election and Illinois. Some republican out in NM I believe was convicted fairly recently.. These are just the ones we know about. The problem is likely far more widespread.
If you allow voter fraud to happen, it will happen. Allowing it to happen negates my vote, negates your vote, negates everyone's vote. Dishonest elections, whether by exclusion or counting false votes, cannot be allowed to happen. We have the solution for counting false votes, work with that to fix it so that it doesn't exclude people. Implement a solution that cures 99% of the problem, then work it to fix the last percent. Don't say "well, it ONLY fixes 99% so we can't do that"
And.. Ex-Felons will not necessarily vote democrat. It's likely many would skew that direction, but the right to vote is a fundamental right of participatory democracy. I vote, generally, republican, not necessarily because I agree with them, but I tend to agree MORE with them.. The last time and only time I voted democrat for president was Clinton's second term, though I disliked Romney he was the lesser of two evils to me. I still believe that felons should lose the right to vote, while they are incarcerated or while on probation/parole.. But once their sentence is over, they are back in society, and should have a hand in shaping that society. In fact, it's my belief that them participating makes them better members of society, though that's very likely just wishful thinking. No free Citizen should permanently lose the right to vote.
I did vote several times for Fritz Hollings, because.. Well, we elect senators for at least one life term in SC.. Sometimes multiple life terms (Strom Thurmond). Local elections, i've probably voted Democratic multiple times.. Tried to get the local sheriff bounced because he's worthless, so went with his opponent, who was a democrat to try to make that happen.. That's another thing that I think should go away, and i'm going way off topic here.. "Straight party" ballots. Anyone who has ever voted a straight party ballot disgusts me.
Last edited by Labonte18; 04-14-2015 at 10:34 PM..
I may be wrong but I feel that if a person doesn't have some form of legit ID
there is probably reasons for it that should also keep him or her from voting. With no ID any one can walk in and vote where and when and maybe as many times as he or she wants. As far as voter fraud goes there is a heck of a lot more of it going on than maybe you would want to admit. People with no ID usually wouldn't take the time to vote but when an offer of gifts are in the air the wino from skid row will be in line to vote. He or she will vote for who ever is offering the gift. Like I said I could be wrong but I really don't think that I am.
What I'd like to know is how much people without ID are likely to be contributing to or participating in society, as opposed to voting their demands and appetites.
Sort of reminds my of the voracious plant in "Little Shop of Horrors." It bellowed "feed me" whenever it was hungry. Usually a person was either dumped into the plant or stumbled in and the plant was fed.
Given that it's the 'first case' I don't think it should require a nationwide rewrite of voter ID laws, but if this is a huge concern to people, then why not have people leave a fingerprint next to their name on the voting register and forget about the photo IDs?
Firstly at best this will only discourage in person voting fraud whereas the ID can stop it almost completely. Secondly it sounds like a nightmare having to fingerprint everyone voting on election day because you're going to have to check each fingerprint which also can be faked without much difficulty. You talk about making things simple but this is only going to make things more difficult for everyone without much benefit because it's still widely open to fraud. Nearly everyone voting will already have the ID and while there may be issues for some obtaining the first one there is no issues afterward.
Fingerprints or some other biometrics will have to be used for absentee ballots but only after first providing your ID and fingerprint before getting the ballot that will also require that fingerprint. This gets very difficult to implement however if you are one of these people expecting to use an absentee ballot what you could do is voluntarily provide it when you get the ID.
Yeah.. I trust the government that fingerprints wouldn't be stored.
Honestly, if you don't have an ID.. How do you accomplish anything? You can't even cash a check without an ID.
My point is.. Don't throw the laws away, as you seem to be advocating.. Fix them. If the elderly can't get out to get an ID, they call the registration office and the registration office sends someone to them. If someone doesn't have a birth certificate, which I find difficult to believe for anyone born in the past 70 years.. Have people in the registration office whose job it is to help these people. I don't want to see them excluded from the vote, either. I *DO* want to see honest elections. Voter ID is the way to make that happen.
There is, has been and will be a fair amount of voter fraud in this country. Remember the woman who voted twice for Obama and was really, really proud of that fact? She was sentenced to 5 years.. There was a nun who voted for someone who was dead.. The 1960 election and Illinois. Some republican out in NM I believe was convicted fairly recently.. These are just the ones we know about. The problem is likely far more widespread.
If you allow voter fraud to happen, it will happen. Allowing it to happen negates my vote, negates your vote, negates everyone's vote. Dishonest elections, whether by exclusion or counting false votes, cannot be allowed to happen. We have the solution for counting false votes, work with that to fix it so that it doesn't exclude people. Implement a solution that cures 99% of the problem, then work it to fix the last percent. Don't say "well, it ONLY fixes 99% so we can't do that"
Your suggestion that someone go provide an ID to people who can't get out is a good one, but I don't see that happening, do you? And as I already stated, some of these people have ID's and still can't vote for really dumb reasons, like their address isn't on their ID, or their middle name is/isn't on the ID but it is on the registration rolls. Those things bother me a lot.
If someone was sent to prison for 5 years for voting twice, that should prove the system was working as intended right? And as far as a nun voting for someone who was dead? I don't get that, you mean they wrote in the name of a dead candidate on their ballot?
My opinion is that voter ID's are a way to make it more difficult for some people to vote and that bothers me- a lot. If the states were approaching this in a way that it would not add additional burdens to the poor, elderly and disabled, then I wouldn't be troubled by it. But, doesn't it sort of make you wonder why a number of the states that are requiring voter ID's are also cutting down on early voting? Is that just a coincidence? Doesn't it bother you that Mike Turzai, house leader in Pennsylvania publicly stated that their new voter ID law would assure that Romney would win?
These 'strict' photo ID states all require that a voter without his/her photo ID must return to the elections office within a certain number of days and present the ID in person.
I don;t know what they have done in other states but these laws don't magically appear overnight. They will be in the news constantly for months if not years and here in PA they sent a letter to every registered voter informing them of the new law. They had a PR campaign and last but not least they requested ID at the primary in anticipation of the law going into full affect for the general election.
You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware of the law at that point.
Firstly at best this will only discourage in person voting fraud whereas the ID can stop it almost completely. Secondly it sounds like a nightmare having to fingerprint everyone voting on election day because you're going to have to check each fingerprint which also can be faked without much difficulty. You talk about making things simple but this is only going to make things more difficult for everyone without much benefit because it's still widely open to fraud. Nearly everyone voting will already have the ID and while there may be issues for some obtaining the first one there is no issues afterward.
Fingerprints or some other biometrics will have to be used for absentee ballots but only after first providing your ID and fingerprint before getting the ballot that will also require that fingerprint. This gets very difficult to implement however if you are one of these people expecting to use an absentee ballot what you could do is voluntarily provide it when you get the ID.
If the goal is really to stop voter fraud, why spend all this money on ID cards when in person voter fraud is so rare? The real problem is absentee ballot fraud, and for the life of me I can't fathom why the advocates here claim that will be taken care of 'later' after this huge in person voter fraud problem is solved. There is no big in person voter fraud. This is smoke and mirrors and designed to keep certain people from voting, or making it so difficult to vote that people give up.
What I'd like to know is how much people without ID are likely to be contributing to or participating in society, as opposed to voting their demands and appetites.
Sort of reminds my of the voracious plant in "Little Shop of Horrors." It bellowed "feed me" whenever it was hungry. Usually a person was either dumped into the plant or stumbled in and the plant was fed.
I don't think it's up to you, or anyone else on this forum, to decide how much a person is contributing to society in order for them to vote. You just made my case though, thanks so much! This is about keeping certain people from voting pure and simple. Absolutely no other reason for it- I do appreciate your honesty
Your suggestion that someone go provide an ID to people who can't get out is a good one, but I don't see that happening, do you? And as I already stated, some of these people have ID's and still can't vote for really dumb reasons, like their address isn't on their ID, or their middle name is/isn't on the ID but it is on the registration rolls. Those things bother me a lot.
If someone was sent to prison for 5 years for voting twice, that should prove the system was working as intended right? And as far as a nun voting for someone who was dead? I don't get that, you mean they wrote in the name of a dead candidate on their ballot?
My opinion is that voter ID's are a way to make it more difficult for some people to vote and that bothers me- a lot. If the states were approaching this in a way that it would not add additional burdens to the poor, elderly and disabled, then I wouldn't be troubled by it. But, doesn't it sort of make you wonder why a number of the states that are requiring voter ID's are also cutting down on early voting? Is that just a coincidence? Doesn't it bother you that Mike Turzai, house leader in Pennsylvania publicly stated that their new voter ID law would assure that Romney would win?
Ok.. early voting.. There's another topic that we can get into.. Quite frankly, early voting in my book is another example of the laziness of our society. Was there any "Early voting" in the 1800's?
I don't like to exclude people, but this one, to me, falls under the "If you're too lazy" header. I have yet to have an employer who would not allow time off for someone to vote. We're making it easier and easier for the lazy to vote, and still we're nowhere close to the participation rates of the past, when it was a REAL hardship to vote. Exceptions for people who are truly disabled.. I have no problem with. Others.. It's like the people who park in a handicap spot because their foot hurts today or because they have some inflated sense of entitlement.. Just ticks me right off. Both the handicap parkers, and the people who won't get up to vote need a potato stuck up their tailpipe.
That one is really just a pet peeve of mine. Yeah, there's alot of good reasons to allow early voting.. And i'm really only half heartedly against it. But it is called PARTICIPATORY democracy.. I do feel that to really participate, you have to get off your butt. Absentee ballots.. Hey, no problem.. Early voting? Grrr..
Quote:
This is about keeping certain people from voting pure and simple. Absolutely no other reason for it
Absolutely. Total agreement. It's to keep the certain people who have no right to vote from voting.
I don't know but it was acceptable in PA. They were accepting a wide range of ID's including any government ID at any level, college ID or accredited long term care home ID. As I have said previously the PA law could have been model for the nation, it's unfortunate our spineless governor who was seeking reelection chose not to appeal the decision by the sate court.
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