Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-29-2015, 07:42 PM
 
4,056 posts, read 2,135,556 times
Reputation: 11003

Advertisements

One of the complaints that college students have been focusing on is cultural (mis)appropriation. They think it's wrong when a mainstream culture or demographic group borrows aspects of the culture/group they oppressed. At one college, students were upset that people would wear sombreros as part of a Halloween costume if they aren't Mexican. At an awards ceremony, Katie Perry dressed as a geisha and people thought that was wrong. And Canadian college students think it's wrong to do yoga since it originated in and should stay in India.

But with globalization, is it really possible for cultural aspects to be so rigidly circumscribed? Would we really want to live such a narrow life? And are we really hurting Indians if we do yoga? Or Chinese people if we eat Chinese food? And are we really oppressors just because we are Americans? England certainly colonized and oppressed India---but I wasn't aware that the US did.

One of the earliest and worst forms of cultural appropriation was putting on black face for vaudeville acts, but somehow the above grievances seem different from that, although I'm not sure why (maybe because skin color is a biological fact that can't be changed and because of the racial history here?).

When I was in London, I visited the British museum. The ancient artifacts there were amazing, but I couldn't get it out of my mind that there were there not because ancient Rome/Greece/Egypt, etc. gifted them to England but because of all the plunder, wars, and bloodshed that resulted in them obtaining it. But if someone buys a sari or kimono or practices yoga, is there really violence or disrespect involved?

And if we can't cross racial/ethnic/religious or country of origin barriers, then no white person in the US could listen to hip hop/blues/jazz. Non-Jews couldn't eat bagels. Non-Latinos couldn't go salsa dancing. Would this make for a better world in any way?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-29-2015, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,722 posts, read 16,372,564 times
Reputation: 50380
It's a tough issue...it seems worse when someone "profits" from cultural appropriation. For example all the musical groups both American and British (think Elvis, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Cream) stealing riffs and lyrics from old blues artists who got next to nothing for their work. And more recently all the "lily-white" artists twerking, etc. while other groups are denigrated for doing similar stuff onstage (Beyonce?).

I guess that doesn't get at wearing sombreros without being Mexican, or non-Jewish bagel eating but those don't seem to be egregious examples compared with some others. Thinking of yoga...I had an Indian teacher years ago and believe me - no recent class I've taken bears ANY resemblance to what she taught (she never had us do downward facing dog and that makes up at least 25% of any modern yoga class - hate it!).

Is there a way to do this in a respectful manner, without mocking and to give credit where it is due?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2015, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,982 posts, read 4,101,035 times
Reputation: 5622
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
At one college, students were upset that people would wear sombreros as part of a Halloween costume if they aren't Mexican. At an awards ceremony, Katie Perry dressed as a geisha and people thought that was wrong. And Canadian college students think it's wrong to do yoga since it originated in and should stay in India.
Ironically, that doesn't stop them from illegally downloading movies, books, music and other intellectual content without actually paying for it.

Welcome to the hypocritical value system of the Millennial generation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2015, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,200,983 times
Reputation: 13779
I don't think parodying another culture is the same thing as "culture appropriation" at all.

A person who isn't of a particular group putting on makeup or dress to make fun of that group or to create a persona that others can make fun of is wrong IMO because of the old rule that we shouldn't make fun of others. OTOH, we can all feel free to make fun of ourselves ... and many times people of particular groups do just that: think of all the ethnic comedians who have made names for themselves by mocking out their fellow ethnics. Blacks using the N-word among themselves to refer to blacks doesn't have the ability to hurt the same way as whites using the N-word among themselves to refer to blacks. A lot of Americans don't seem to "get" this. Maybe they're just ignorant, but my gut feeling is that it's just a manifestation of bigotry.

Cultural appropriation is something different. It's where an ethnic or religious or racial practice attracts the interest of the majority culture and people of all groups within the culture adopt those practices. The tradition of the Christmas tree is probably the best known of these, coming from the German immigrants of the mid-19th century. The "American" sport of rodeo comes from the practice of vaqueros in Texas, New Mexico, and California holding riding and roping contests. In parts of the country where there was/is a strong Catholic presence, Friday fish frys are popular with people of all religions and no religion. American music and American food are like giant tributes to cultural appropriation.

Culture isn't stagnant, especially in a country that has been built on immigration and that still has considerable immigration. "American" culture of today would probably be undecipherable to a person from 1789. Nothing we said or did would make sense to him ... and we would probably have a difficult time understanding him and probably would be just as appalled by his customs/beliefs as he would be by ours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2015, 08:01 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,214,810 times
Reputation: 35013
Nothing wrong with cultural appropriation. That's what culture is there for and there is no "pure" culture in existence anywhere, despite people thinking there is. This is much ado about nothing and I'm surprised it's gained any footing among rational human beings. But since we are talking mostly about college aged people I'm guessing it's because people that age often need a cause to get behind or something to protest against. There are plenty of things out there but this is something easy that nobody actually has to do anything about except post online and yell at people they don't like for doing something "bad".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2015, 08:27 PM
 
2,144 posts, read 1,879,306 times
Reputation: 10604
I've heard people get mad when white women put their hair in many braids for this reason.

As long as no one is making fun of anyone else, what's so bad about enjoying something from another culture?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2015, 11:15 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
For example all the musical groups both American and British (think Elvis, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Cream) stealing riffs and lyrics from old blues artists who got next to nothing for their work.
Blues was not the only genre that influenced Rock, Folk/Gospel/Country was just as influential.

Music is always going too influence other music, it's just music and does not recognize the artificial bounds of race. FYI, Blues was influenced by Folk.

Quote:
"The Maid Freed from the Gallows" is one of many titles of a centuries-old folk song about a condemned maiden pleading for someone to buy her freedom from the executioner. In the collection of ballads compiled by Francis James Child in the late 19th century, it is indexed as Child Ballad number 95; 11 variants, some fragmentary, are indexed as 95A to 95K.[1] In the Roud Folk Song Index it is number 144. The ballad exists in a number of folkloric variants, from many different countries, and has been remade in a variety of formats. For example, it was recorded in 1939 as "The Gallis Pole" by folk singer Huddie "Lead Belly" Ledbetter, and - the most famous version - in 1970 as "Gallows Pole", an arrangement of the Fred Gerlach version by English rock band Led Zeppelin, on the album Led Zeppelin III.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YIp0h7PIlo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKj4B5GvLK4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9DuDgzGjtE


Long history for a single song.

Last edited by thecoalman; 11-30-2015 at 11:24 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2015, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,404 posts, read 15,995,916 times
Reputation: 8095
Are colleges teaching kids to be too sensitive? I think so! As long as something doesn't PHYSICALLY hurt you...let it go. Even words....yep, people....words can be mean, but it's so easy to ignore that which bothers you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2015, 10:37 AM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,561,490 times
Reputation: 15300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murk View Post
I've heard people get mad when white women put their hair in many braids for this reason.

As long as no one is making fun of anyone else, what's so bad about enjoying something from another culture?


There isn't. Its a manufactured controversy by people with too much time on their hands. As someone said above - no rational person pays any attention to it. But we are talking generally about people who do not uphold freedom of speech, nor freedom of voluntary actions. They wish to impose a prescribed (and indeed proscribing) world.


Now, lampooning and mocking other cultures, races, ethnicities - a different matter entirely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Early America
3,124 posts, read 2,069,617 times
Reputation: 7867
It's multiculturalism gone awry and demonstrates an ignorance of how cultures have naturally evolved throughout human history and continue to evolve. Most was by human migration, endowment or exchanges and intercultural unions (marriage).

Multiculturalism seeks to preserve cultures. The desire to preserve cultures is not necessarily a bad thing but cultures are not static. Some of these kids (and adults) want to artificially manipulate which cultures to preserve and which ones to destroy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top