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And this is a problem? Not everyone derives their meaning in life from having kids.
I understand parents feel that their greatest gift and accomplishment is their kids and that's fine but again not everyone feels the same way about children.
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Originally Posted by FireFly2
That's a silly statement. Just because someone doesn't have kids doesn't mean that he/she hasn't taken care of others or made a contribution to society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
I would love for you to say this in the faces of people who have lost children and/or could not have any (more.)
So are you trying to say that childless doctors, nurses, teachers, professors, researchers, et al have of course "not done very much?" Most of these people choose to contribute to society as opposed to, or in addition to, raising children.
How would it sound if i said that waiters, cashiers, librarians, cooks, laborers, et al have not "done very much?" Because a lot of people feel that way.
Too many use "having children" as a scapegoat for not "doing very much" with their lives. That is at least one thing that CF people do not do.
All three of you, excellent well thought responses. Reps to you for keeping the conversation clean, pointing out the pros of being CF without resorting to insults.
We have that already it is known as "Election Day"
Recall Benjamin Franklin's retort about the politicians jockeying for prominence during the nations founding when he said, "I smell a rat in Philadelphia"
To celebrate the fact that we have chosen to NOT give in to societal pressure to bring unwanted children into a world that already has millions of unwanted, unloved, neglected, homeless, and abused children already. Clearly parenthood is not for everyone. At least child-free people have the guts to say "no" to parenthood rather than blindly obeying societal pressure to have kids regardless of whether or not you're capable of being a responsible and loving parent.
Seriously? You want a pat on the back for that? I know that's probably a big thing for you as an individual, but to the world at large it's not.
Having or not having children is a personal lifestyle decision and nothing more. I really don't see what the big deal is. I'm female and I've never been pressured to have children by family or friends. Why? Because it's again -- a personal lifestyle choice that affects my life, not theirs. It just so happens that I wanted to have children, but not irresponsibly. As with anything, both of my children were planned and I was in a stable, loving relationship. If I didn't have a good foundation to provide them, then I wouldn't have any. Period.
Certain childfree people like to denigrate women who have given birth and seem to look for oneupsmanship opportunities for some reason. Is it envy that motivates some people to brew over the fact that there's no mainstream holiday for a guy or gal who chooses to not procreate? Also, MOther's day/Father's day is not always about you. I celebrated those moments with my own parents for years, the ones who decided to procreate and bring me into this earth.
I don't deserve a gold star for exercising my right to make a decision, and sorry to say, neither should childfree people.
Nothing could be further from the truth. You may say it to those you wish to if you desire for me to say this. TO have lost a child is probably the worse thing that could happen to a person. I have known people who have lost children, it is an unspeakable tragedy. An unforgettable tragedy.
If you would love to have me say this to people, you can do it for me. This never entered my thoughts.
Never remotely, you've dreamt this up. A misinterpretaion due to a lack of comprehension.
This entry I have posted has nothing to do with economic value, success, social status, or any other thing of materialistic value. To have created a life and shaped it , molded it, and nurtured it along to fruition is a human value intrinsic that is second to none. Within the realm of human experience it is second to none. It is something that is beyond monetary value.
It is entirely in the hands of the parent, the mold will be set by the responsible party, the responsibility is immense, solenm, when one is responsible for the future of another human life. Some take this lightly , others very seriously.
It is both a burden and a great joy simultaneously.
I can explain it so you can understand it perhaps by entering a remarkable quote by someone else-Mrs. Rose Kennedy. One which I have never forgotten, read years ago , that should illuminate.
"I would rather have reared a President than to have written a best selling book." This statement has to do with regular, plain, family values, and nothing else. It is this; which is worth more than anything else.
One cannot attach value to it, it is beyond that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums
As for all of the mundane occupations you posted here, yes I am sure you are right.
Except for the laborers. These are the people that actually produce something of value. It is not a service, such as a cook, librarian, nurse, teacher or a waiter provides. These people actually accomplish something concrete. Make something. Create something. Someone actually has to do some work, the real, actual, work, in society. A highway, a dam, or bridge , water pipes, electrical lines, sewer pipes, produce automobiles... and collect the garbage. Disease, rats, vermin etc., would run rampant without garbage collectors and all civilization would vanish soon afterward- Society could not function without them. An entirely unappreciated endeavor. This is how things are. Yet these, are at the bottom of the rung of status in society because they collect refuse.
I would not put laborers on the same scale as are all the rest of the occupations you named here, the "service" providers you included here. Because. As Abraham Lincoln once observed....and the same is still true today.
"Of the two labor is the superior of capital. Without labor, capital could not exist." No matter how glorified
and lofty some occupations are made to appear, labor provides the means for all else to exist.
I would love for you to say this in the faces of people who have lost children and/or could not have any (more.)
So are you trying to say that childless doctors, nurses, teachers, professors, researchers, et al have of course "not done very much?" Most of these people choose to contribute to society as opposed to, or in addition to, raising children.
How would it sound if i said that waiters, cashiers, librarians, cooks, laborers, et al have not "done very much?" Because a lot of people feel that way.
Too many use "having children" as a scapegoat for not "doing very much" with their lives. That is at least one thing that CF people do not do.
This is a discussion and everyone is welcome to express their views and opinions. Your comment is what I would consider rude and ad hominem, but I'm responding politely, to maintain a civilized discourse. (Note that I didn't say "you have been quite disrespectful", I referred to your comment alone. It's best to criticize the idea, not the person who expresses the idea.)
This thread was started by someone who apparently wanted to have a discussion about being child-free. Several comments added to the notion that there's something wrong with people who have kids. One person went as far as to post several random links from a Google search that purport to prove remorse.
Those with kids try to explain the other side, and my stance in particular has been that if you have not raised kids, you will (probably) not understand the experience. You may appreciate the independence and freedom of not having kids, but you won't know what you missed. That's an opinion. You're free to disagree with it. No one is "prying" on about a topic after it's over. This is an ongoing discussion, so deal with it.
There is no "apparently" about it. The OP asked about establishing a day of celebration of people of a certain part of Society. She not ask for a discussion of being child free, just the idea for a one day observance of a child free day and people's opinions of it. What's to discuss being childfree if you have kids anyway? You have already made your decision to parent.
Why don't you start a thread having a discussion about being parents? Why are you so obsessed with something you are not?
Last edited by Minervah; 05-20-2015 at 09:57 AM..
Reason: better wording
BEST POST EVER!!!! I like this girl. You ever get to Cleveland, I'm buying you a drink!
Live and let live.
I can't believe some people can be such *insert not nice word*:
"You'll never know real responsibility until you become a mom"
"The best women in the world are moms"
"You're missing out on the best thing ever"
"You don't know true love if you aren't a parent"
"Spend as much money as you want on that dress, you have no kids, it's not like you need your money"
"Oh, you have time for the gym and crafts because you don't have children
Thankfully I've NEVER heard that from anyone I know pre-child. I'll make sure to smack any parents that I hear say that.
My apologies as a parent to any child free people that have heard that drivel from anyone...
Can I join you for that drink? I've heard all these and more.
It might have something to do with age. I am 69 years old. Believe me, when I was of child bearing age, a woman admitting she did not want kids was considered a freak of nature. Talk about pressure to reproduce! Family, friends, neighbors, co-workers even strangers. When I was married everyone would ask "When are you going to have a baby?" Before I was married it was "When are you going to get married and have a baby?" It was just a given I would. That's what women did in the 50's and 60's. Some had careers but you were expected to give them up and have kids eventually.
Honestly, I know women who had kids because of this kind of pressure and because it was expected of them. They couldn't wait until their kids were grown and out of the house. I saw that with my own relatives. These were not happy families. Maybe that doesn't exist today because I see people here saying they have never seen it. I hope that is true.
I had a woman pediatrician who gave up the prospect of marriage to take care of everyone else's kids. She felt she couldn't have both career and marriage. Many school teachers did that too in those times.
Today it seems to be more acceptable for both men and women married or not to say they have made the choice not to have children. When I tell young people I don't have kids they are not very surprised. When I tell people of my own age I don't have grandkids they ask what's wrong with my kids they haven't given me any. When I tell them I never had kids the "why not?" questions start and I am transported back in time.
There is no "apparently" about it. The OP asked about establishing a day of celebration of people of a certain part of Society. She not ask for a discussion of being child free, just the idea for a one day observance of a child free day and people's opinions of it. What's to discuss being childfree if you have kids anyway? You have already made your decision to parent.
Why don't you start a thread having a discussion about being parents? Why are you so obsessed with something you are not?
Why are you criticizing someone else for participating in an open discussion? Why are you so obsessed with someone else's opinions? Everyone's entitled to an opinion on the topic and if you don't like it when people disagree, as clearly quite a few people do, then you have to accept that as the price of freedom of speech.
If the OP prefers not to hear from parents on this issue, they should have said: "Please only respond if you do not have children."
But of course, that wouldn't make sense since they're asking whether there should be a special holiday for child-free people, and obviously it's not much of a holiday if only some people recognize it as such.
Right? I was going to add: Jay Leno. Guess I would have to type: Mavis Leno.
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Nothing,
