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Old 06-07-2015, 05:30 PM
 
2,937 posts, read 1,773,866 times
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Um you don't have to smoke weed to get high. There are many, many other ways of getting high now. So it's possible to use marijuana without damaging your lungs.

There is nothing wrong with marijuana, it's on the same level of alcohol and cigarettes in my mind and prosecuting people for marijuana is a complete waste of money.

I fully believe that if the government can find a way to nationally regulate and tax marijuana so they can make money off of it that it would become legal. The only problem being marijuana is easy to grow on your own and hard to regulate.

If any of you have seen the ending to the show "Weeds", that's my ideal scenario.
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,223,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
It is not "harmless", but neither is it as bad as what the anti-drug-types say.

1) You are filling your lungs with smoke (ash, various chemicals). This is never ever good in the long term.

2) While the psychoactive effects have proven to be mostly harmless to adults with moderate use, several studies have proven that it can be detrimental to brain development with extensive use. Especially in youth (pre age 25 or so) whose brains are still developing.

3) It is addictive, but only after regular use. It isn't as addictive as alcohol or nicotine, both of which are completely legal for adults. The psychoactive effects aren't as dangerous as alcohol; people who are stoned don't get violent in bars or kill people on the highway.

Really? Provide some links proving so.

The entire MJ topic is on par with anti-gun propaganda because of knee jerk reactions.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Fuquay Varina
4,532 posts, read 6,606,306 times
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I'm surprised big tobacco companies aren't lobbying for it to be legal. They could use that to replace tobacco sales and they already have a distribution network.

I think mj is less toxic than tobacco but it shouldn't be legal to everyone. Some jobs I can see requiring a person to be drug free
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:11 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,152,628 times
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I wonder if it could help tame violent criminals. People who go around robbing convenience stores with guns, raping women they never met before, attacking strangers violently enough to put them in the hospital just for the fun of it, starting violent fights over perceived minor insults, etc. What would happen if people like that had free and easy access to as much marijuana as they wanted? Maybe a community MJ center, where people could go to smoke it any time they wanted to, as much as they wanted? Could it reduce their violent crime significantly enough to make their communities better places to live?

OTOH, we could just build some huge, very spartan, very cheap prisons in the desert, and lock such people away for life. That might tame them even better. Why should their prisons have air conditioning, 3 square meals per day, and nothing for the prisoners to do but just relax? I never understood why prisons were so expensive. Why not use more iron bars on the cells and complexes, to not need so many guards? Is iron expensive? Why not put the prisoners in chain gangs that do useful work to make the prison pay for itself?

Comparing the above two solutions to violent crime, which would make you feel better? The marijuana would be perceived as a reward for being a violent criminal. It's only common sense to not reward such behavior. But maybe some kind of combination of extreme punishment and behavior modification with marijuana and/or other drugs. With the punishment being extreme enough to satisfy those who would not want to reward them, and the behavior modification being cost effective enough to be a real solution in combination with the extreme punishment.

But, instead, we get a borderline incompetent justice system, full of bureaucracy and waste, spending most of its time teaching prisoners to be even more violent than they were before, then turning them loose to practice their violence on people who don't have any training against it.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:18 PM
 
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Prisons are expensive because the prison system is largely privatized. The government gives the money to private organizations that are robbing us blind. But the problems with the prison industrial complex should probably be it's own thread.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,273 posts, read 3,095,885 times
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Lightbulb Legalization will cost millions.. from Miller, Busch, and Bacardi in lost profits

Alcohol, by any objective standard, is much worse than THC. Each year, 88K deaths in the USA are directly traceable to alcohol (not just injury, but also cancer, cardiovascular diseases and liver cirrhosis).

Marijuana related deaths not tied to the legal status of the drug? Two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
The opposition to keeping it illegal comes about for a few reasons:
. . .
Keep pot illegal is nothing but idiocy at this point - it wastes tax dollars, creates actual criminals, feeds the drug trade, and is hypocritical to top it off.
Changing the law is opposed in part by the various businesses which stand to lose millions if MJ/THC is legalized, not the least of which are the alcoholic beverage industry and the illegal marijuana industry.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,322 posts, read 4,734,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
No, many people claim it is "harmless". Mostly users trying to get other people to try it, or users trying to justify their own use. Perhaps you meant something like, "No scientist or politician says it's 'harmless'."
People who say it's "harmless" are having a trigger reaction from people erroneously harping that it's 'harmful" or worse, "lethal." It's human nature. I did the same regarding marijuana when younger and claimed it was "harmless." (Just like when people on CD proclaim that "Democrats are stupid" my *instinct* is still to fire back with "Republicans are idiots!" But I'm more mature nowadays )

There are MANY incorrect facts about its "harm" that still bother me though. The biggest peeve to me is that "marijuana leads to schizophrenia in teens."

Nope! There are a few 20+ y.o. studies that show a correlation and that's all it is. I've worked with a lot of addicts and schizophrenics and also been related to both. I would bet my licence on the fact that since schizophrenics are 1. less inclined to follow rules and 2. Self medicate, then voila! You have predromal schizophrenics smoking weed.

For males, the first "psychotic break" indicating schizophrenia happens around age 19-23. Most have already tried weed by then. I tried it at about 16 as did all of my friends. Interestingly, many of my high school friends had a parent with schizophrenia like I did which makes us 10xs more likely to get it. None of us did. That's a case study in itself. But who would fund something with expected results like these?

My peeve on top of that peeve is that *currently* practicing psychiatrists perpetuate this study! So many look down on addicts/drug users to begin with and this just gives them another excuse. It also blames the victim. In some cases, helpful yet addicting drugs might be withheld.

And now when we are finding out that many mental disorders may have an inflammatory component and canabinoids are anti-inflammatory.

A "harmful" side effect is for sure a loss of short term memory in many. But when you are trying to drown out voices in your head telling you that you are worthless, images of your dead friend in war, etc, is that really such a bad thing?
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,322 posts, read 4,734,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
Alcohol, by any objective standard, is much worse than THC. Each year, 88K deaths in the USA are directly traceable to alcohol (not just injury, but also cancer, cardiovascular diseases and liver cirrhosis).

Marijuana related deaths not tied to the legal status of the drug? Two.


Changing the law is opposed in part by the various businesses which stand to lose millions if MJ/THC is legalized, not the least of which are the alcoholic beverage industry and the illegal marijuana industry.
1. In that study, one kid had a heart attack which can happen to anyone. It's correlation not causation. And the other man had a history of alcohol abuse.


2. I don't believe that the beer companies will lose millions. Drinking will always be a social past-time in the USA.

However, even if they did, so what? Who besides shareholders are crying about a the possibility of less beer (and alcoholics) in America? Those jobs and revenue can easily shift to the cannabis industry.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,223,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
I wonder if it could help tame violent criminals. People who go around robbing convenience stores with guns, raping women they never met before, attacking strangers violently enough to put them in the hospital just for the fun of it, starting violent fights over perceived minor insults, etc. What would happen if people like that had free and easy access to as much marijuana as they wanted? Maybe a community MJ center, where people could go to smoke it any time they wanted to, as much as they wanted? Could it reduce their violent crime significantly enough to make their communities better places to live?

OTOH, we could just build some huge, very spartan, very cheap prisons in the desert, and lock such people away for life. That might tame them even better. Why should their prisons have air conditioning, 3 square meals per day, and nothing for the prisoners to do but just relax? I never understood why prisons were so expensive. Why not use more iron bars on the cells and complexes, to not need so many guards? Is iron expensive? Why not put the prisoners in chain gangs that do useful work to make the prison pay for itself?


Comparing the above two solutions to violent crime, which would make you feel better? The marijuana would be perceived as a reward for being a violent criminal. It's only common sense to not reward such behavior. But maybe some kind of combination of extreme punishment and behavior modification with marijuana and/or other drugs. With the punishment being extreme enough to satisfy those who would not want to reward them, and the behavior modification being cost effective enough to be a real solution in combination with the extreme punishment.

But, instead, we get a borderline incompetent justice system, full of bureaucracy and waste, spending most of its time teaching prisoners to be even more violent than they were before, then turning them loose to practice their violence on people who don't have any training against it.

Why not just build a huge yard surrounded by 20' concrete/block walls? Why lend the luxury of iron bars to prisoners? Let them sleep on the bare ground.
Wait Wouldn't that be cruel and unusual punishment? Who cares? Shouldn't be in prison.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Moscow
2,085 posts, read 3,050,795 times
Reputation: 2551
I work in the field of substance use disorders. Mj is known to reduce iq in regular youth users by up to 10%. It increases some cancer risks. It is a gateway drug (as are alc. And tobacco). Smoking it is very bad for the lungs. While not physically addicting, some users do develop a psychological addiction.

I believe it should be legalized, regulated, taxed, and treated as a public health issue. Just like tobacco and alcohol.
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